Kelly: SWA costs too high

[LandGreen]

I figured this was coming. It does seem like a cycle for all airlines. Charging for bags may help, but now the Feds are pushing taxes for those fees. I do feel that the company will explore every avenue of possible revenue or savings before asking for concessions. If worse comes to worse, what is better, giving in to concessions or losing your contract in bankruptcy?

Hopefully a Delta history lesson will help the guys at SWA if it ever came down to this. Don't give concessions in hope of avoiding bankruptcy. Delta pilots did this and management got the opportunity to take TWO bites from the apple. When management threatens concessions or bankruptcy...they are just trying to squeeze more from the turnip! Most likely they know already that they are going for protection. If you give concessions...what assurances are given to avoid getting your contract gutted in bankruptcy? Answer: NONE!

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Everyone mocks and laughs at United, but I'm beginning to see a money making machine. In a few years, I think United will be the hot place to be. Especially if we get a good contract, it'll be hard to get an interview. With the upcoming movement and retirements, this will be the place to be. SW and Kelly are starting to feel the heat and they're looking around to make it run better and make more money for investors. But eventually, something has to give and that's usually employee wages. Also, SW will change the guard over time and that, unfortunately, will change SW's culture. In 5 or so years, it'll be a different place. Then again...2012 is coming and the Mayan calendar ends....so it's all over anyways.

United WAS the place to work about 15 years ago...Don't think it's your turn!!!

Everyone mocks and laughs at United, but I'm beginning to see a money making machine.

Of course they are making money because the PAY sucks! When that comes up, they will not be making enough money!

. Especially if we get a good contract,
.

Did you guys get rid of ALPA? Otherwise it ain't gonna happen, They have their own agenda, not sure what it is but it's not getting higher pay... If someone figures it out, PLEASE let the rest of us know! Remember the Parity Plus 1 years, that's long gone!

Good Luck, My next pay raise is counting on you!
KBB

 

[johnsonrod]

To me, this sounds like rationale for selling off the 717 sooner. If 717 pilots are paid the same rates as 737 pilots with fewer seats and fewer rotations, how can they make money at those high wages? I've heard that SW thinks they can operate more turns at ATL than AirTran does today - that means productivity can be improved at ATL. As GL pointed out, at least SW is indirectly getting cash through AirTran's bag fees to cover the difference...

 

[pilotyip]

With AA BK, SWA now has the highest cost per employee. Low turnover the last 10 years has increased per employee cost.

 

[shon7]

The 777 pilots are roughly as productive because they generate roughly the same revenue.

How exactly are the pilots generating revenue? Your assumptions are based on a 100% load factor which depends on the quality of the product being put out and the consumers willingness to pay for it.

 

[GogglesPisano]

How exactly are the pilots generating revenue?

All employees generate revenue, some more directly than others. Who else more directly generates revenue at an airline than the employees who move the airplane?

Your assumptions are based on a 100% load factor which depends on the quality of the product being put out and the consumers willingness to pay for it.

Substitute any load factor you'd like (as long as you apply the adjustment to both examples in my post) and the results would be roughly the same.

So far, they're willing to pay.

 

[funnyman12]

The "B" scale that us Airtran guys will be under was extremely foolish for SWAPA to support. It will be used against the SW pilots. It is ashame that SWAPA allowed that carrot for management. I posted this on here a year ago, and it will happen as I predicted. My concern fell on deaf ears on the SW side. We shall see.

 

[HA25]

let the race to the bottom begin...labor is dead in the post 9-11 era...

you ain't kid din man..... this is bad. The industry is in a flat spin...

 

[shon7]

All employees generate revenue, some more directly than others. Who else more directly generates revenue at an airline than the employees who move the airplane?

...So far, they're willing to pay.

haha. funniest thing I ever heard. By that logic the employees are responsible for the state of the airlines since not enough revenue is being generated by them which then is leading to bankruptcies. Which by the way also negates your second point - that consumers are willing to pay.

 

[waveflyer]

Flat spin?
Maybe pilots will turn off Am radio & fox, get in the game and start supporting unions again...(?)
Maybe??

As for the delta boys contributions- a question- can only be at controls for 8 hours- when it comes to your legalities- do all 15 hours count? Or just the 8?
If it's just the 8 hrs- then that's like us counting our deadheads as productivity- not the same-
For swa types- we aren't as productive as we once were- swa pilots 10 years ago flew quite a bit more block/pilot than we do- to me- that makes me nervous as more get hired here for just the money and game the system-
What say you? How do we get Pilots to be more productive like Gary says we need?
Me: I want to fly a lot of block and get paid what I'm owed under the contract- There are also a lot more inefficiencies that have creeped into the schedule (261kt descents, ground time, 45 min scheduled turns in connect cities) that we shouldn't subsidize w/ our wages-
Some is old fashioned work ethic though- we make enough to not have to fly a ton and more and more are choosing not to- I think I'd rather give up a few extra days off - make money and give the Co an advantage than stare pay cuts in the face down the line

 

[Shag McNasty]

How do we get Pilots to be more productive like Gary says we need?

Work more and get paid less. I think that's the general gist of his statement.

 

[nimtz]

Work more and get paid less. I think that's the general gist of his statement.

But fight on Warriors!

 

[Fox-Tree]

2 statements from an obvious Koolaid drinker

Hopefully we can sustain our wages, but when you're wages are the highest, there's only one way to go.

So, why bother trying to get an industry leading contract. You'll only lose out in the end, right?

Let's hope the productivity goes up so other things don't go down.

In other words: "Let's hope we can work more for the same pay"
If you're "lucky" maybe they can build your lines to the 100 hour max!! :erm:

 

[humveedriver]

It's not the hourly wage he is looking at. It's the time and a half and gaming of the schedule that I bet is going to take a hit. Me thinks straight time flying is going to be the norm. Guys who are used to the bigger paycheck will continue to fly more, if only due to the psychological effect of maintaining a certain level of income.

 

[pilotyip]

Didn't SWA ask for some relief in contract talk a couple years ago, and it was voted down? Wouldn't it still be great place to work under those terms?