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:laugh: He said management and think
 
JustPlaneTruth said:
Staffing modeling is based on demand not on airframes. Demand is really high right now and sales are strong so demand should continue to be strong. When whole shares are parsed down to 32 shares on a card it changes the response to demand methods significantly. NJ should have recalled pilots months ago so that it could be ready for the busy season. Money, good will, lost opportunity and brand all left on the table by poor decisions by the EMT.
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Exactly the opposite everyone has been told over the last 4+ years.....

Somehow I'm not surprised.... Nothing that has been told to a furloughee has been 100% truthful...
 
BentOver said:
Exactly the opposite everyone has been told over the last 4+ years.....

Somehow I'm not surprised.... Nothing that has been told to a furloughee has been 100% truthful...
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Management has been saying "demand" for some time. Since they control manning, why would they say "demand" when they secretly they were using "airframes". The reality is probably that demand drives airframe need which drives manning levels so the point is moot for anything but discussion.

Keep in mind that some former "leaders" and keyboard cowboys in the union have been screaming "overstaffed" and "furloughs around the corner" for nearly 3 years now. Didn't come to fruition and their argument is based on bogus data. The CBA speaks to a minimum required staffing level that really has no basis in reality to what is needed to run operations. How convenient to crank out bogus numbers and keep the troops on edge. Only problem - real people have made real life decisions based on opinions not based on reality.
 
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Total airframes or available airframes? On any given day, you've got several that are in MX for multi-day inspections don't need crews.
 
JustPlaneTruth said:
Management has been saying "demand" for some time. Since they control manning, why would they say "demand" when they secretly they were using "airframes". The reality is probably that demand drives airframe need which drives manning levels so the point is moot for anything but discussion.

Keep in mind that some former "leaders" and keyboard cowboys in the union have been screaming "overstaffed" and "furloughs around the corner" for nearly 3 years now. Didn't come to fruition and their argument is based on bogus data. Yeah no sh.it... I'd could give you the names of the 3 likely culprits on our side of the msg board with ease. Every time we mentioned anything about 18 day/extended days etc etc, it was constantly jammed down our throats that we were wrong and the company was "most likey going to furlough next quarter".. It took one of the recall initiators to personally email me and inform me how wrong the other 3 were... That in fact the numbers did not support a furlough and things actually were looking brighter.. (Without Luthi and Co. at the helm.) The CBA speaks to a minimum required staffing level that really has no basis in reality to what is needed to run operations. How convenient to crank out bogus numbers and keep the troops on edge. Only problem - real people have made real life decisions based on opinions not based on reality.
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The former NJASAP leadership had such an agenda that they didn't care what lie they told as long as it made their agenda stronger.

Now when's the next referendum vote, Bylaws vote, or any other vote? It's been atleast 2 months, there must be a vote occurring that takes up more resources.. :beer:
 
t-bone said:
Total airframes or available airframes? On any given day, you've got several that are in MX for multi-day inspections don't need crews.
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5 per total airframes.

A couple of years ago when it was slower ...more furlough rumours were floated by I don't know who... So people calculated how many could possibly be furloughed and still remain at 5 per airframe. Problem is at that time the number of airframes was going lower every month... and some of the airframes we were told the company wanted to get rid of.

So if they had airframes on the books that are not needed ... I guess its just a paperwork drill to remove those from the certificate.

How many pilots are needed to meet demand? I think this is the real number because the company can just rid itself of unneeded airplanes. But as the CBA is written ... airframes determines minimum number of crews
 
DC-4 said:
Ok I give. What happened this week. I hope nothing bad in your personal life and your speaking of work.
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Nothing too dramatic. Except our delusional, out-of-touch, and possibly turncoat union EBoard blew up the best unity and leverage building effort it ever had and tried to replace it with a retread, lilly-livered, and to many, downright offensive "branding" campaign.

It's just the latest example of how dysfunctional and impotent NJASAP is.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad....
 
Add to the list 3 G guys that are leaving. One was a IV guy headed back on his recall to a major, one V that got hired by a major and one V guy that leaves this week to fly for Gulfstream.
 
I wonder how far down the list they'll go between the # of pilots they need and the people who defer. Needless to say, I'm way down the list.
 
PoorGuy said:
I wonder how far down the list they'll go between the # of pilots they need and the people who defer. Needless to say, I'm way down the list.
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I'm in this general area, right in here. Anything, below the stereo, and on this side of the Bicentennial glasses. Anything between the ashtray, and the thimbles. Anything in this three inches. Right in here, this area, that includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers.
 
downwind,
my guess would be from the sell off days hitting 11 or close to it for a few months now.

NJA has the choice of going over 11 days a a forced recall or getting out in front of this and hiring at a slow rate to keep the ship upright.

They are at a crossroads or past it, Act like the 800 pound leader or fade into the eastern/pan-am history books.
 
billybob said:
downwind,
my guess would be from the sell off days hitting 11 or close to it for a few months now.

NJA has the choice of going over 11 days a a forced recall or getting out in front of this and hiring at a slow rate to keep the ship upright.

They are at a crossroads or past it, Act like the 800 pound leader or fade into the eastern/pan-am history books.
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I just don't see it happening. I believe Bridgeway found a way to sell off all they want via EJM and other sources and will NEVER break the 11 day mark. Add in our absolutely incompetent "union" and I don't think we'll see recalls until there aren't enough bodies around due to guys jumping ship.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
it is just not sustainable at the current staffing number, as a small biz owner since the furlough our numbers are starting to go back to 06 numbers. This is true for others out there. I think NJA is about to get caught with their pants down and would look for a letter in the mail in the next few months if your at the top of the list.

I am sorry about the NOV/DEC 1 rumor but if they have any hope of the operation not failing they need people now for the next year.
 
I'd come back. At least long enough to get competitive for someone flying Boeing or Airbus. I'm right in the middle on the list. I plan as if I'm never coming back. But honestly, I actually miss TEB every now and then!
 
billybob said:
I am sorry about the NOV/DEC 1 rumor but if they have any hope of the operation not failing they need people now for the next year.
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No rumor. December 13 the new staffing plan was presented to the chief. What he does with it, though, is another thing entirely. All I know is we need more bodies.
 
Just an existential observation; pretty remarkable how quickly NJA went from being THE place so many regional pukes or freight dogs wanted. Heck, I remember hearing stories of guys leaving legacies to go there (granted, they were junior). And now look at it. Infighting, weak-d*ck 'union', totally incompetent and greedy mgmt. Soon you'll overhear NJA guys asking flight options guys in FBOs how they can get on with them...

Amazing the difference 5 or 6 yrs make. And the recession effects are moot now since they've come back seemingly stronger than ever financially---just chose to strongly diverge from the employee-friendly RTS style.
 
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Haven't heard a single word from the company since the furlough. The "union" hasn't extended an olive branch to the group in hopes of winning some of us back. Actually quite the contrary with floating false rumors and otherwise acting like a bunch of punks.
I think we will know when recalls are imminent when the company and union start acting civil again. I'm not seeing it right now.

TMC and EJM are where the growth seems to be right now. Wonder why?
 
Pervis said:
No rumor. December 13 the new staffing plan was presented to the chief. What he does with it, though, is another thing entirely. All I know is we need more bodies.
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As long as the gentleman keeping track of Selloffs had nothing to do with said presentation, we might have a shot!
 
NJA will recall when either:

1) They have an increase in a/c demanding more pilots

2) The costs of selling off outweigh the costs of having more core a/c and pilots. (customer service is not this EMT's strong suite. They don't care about sticking an owner on "Hank's Charter Service"

3) Fatigue/sick calls become to huge to maintain current staffing numbers (in reality not likely to happen)

4) enough guys retire/leave for greener pastures (which just means NJA QOL sucks and is not a career destination)



They are not going to recall because a few pilots are working longer duty days, or fly 50 hrs more this year than last etc etc...

It is all about a/c numbers and pilot ratios... Hopefully the NJA EMT is not intentionally trying to keep NJA a fixed size
 
Xcorporate said:
The "union" hasn't extended an olive branch to the group in hopes of winning some of us back.
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Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. This EBoard obviously has no problem ignoring, pissing off, and offending big chunks of the active memberhip too...



Most of the rank and file are concerned for you and want you back as soon as possible. The leadership? They seem more concerned with feathering their nest. Just like the last bunch. It must be something in the water in Gahanna.
 
Downwind said:
I'm in this general area, right in here. Anything, below the stereo, and on this side of the Bicentennial glasses. Anything between the ashtray, and the thimbles. Anything in this three inches. Right in here, this area, that includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers.
Click to expand...

"See that. That's Sh*t. This is shinola. Your gonna be ok."

Best movie ever made!
 
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Just an existential observation; pretty remarkable how quickly NJA went from being THE place so many regional pukes or freight dogs wanted. Heck, I remember hearing stories of guys leaving legacies to go there (granted, they were junior). And now look at it. Infighting, weak-d*ck 'union', totally incompetent and greedy mgmt. Soon you'll overhear NJA guys asking flight options guys in FBOs how they can get on with them?

Welcome to the new ceo greed driven fractional model. Don't think that will ever happen though. Atleast you guys are getting paid a livable salary. Our captain pay scale doesn't even touch your f/o scale. As the rest rules just became more stringent for the 121 carriers on Jan 04th the abuse runs rampant in the so called fractionals. I wish the FAA would wake up and realize the rules need to change for the fracs hiding under the 91/135 umbrella. These greedy fnin ceos are gonna get some people hurt. They think we are freaking robots that don't need sleep, exercise, or time to unwind. Starting to make life on reserve in the 121 world look desirable at this point.
 

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