Jumpseating might be back soon

[flight-crew]

I got an email from my union today saying that jumpseating might be back late 2002 to early 2003. Of course, I'll believe it when I see it. Even if it comes true, it shouldn't have taken a year and a half.

Has anyone heard anything else?

 

[probablecause]

AWESOME!

 

[azdriver]

HEy interesting post!


I would like to know what's the policy for jumpseatting in U.S. since I'm planning to go to LAX but my company ALITALIA flight everywhere but california! can I ask to DL or UA to give me a ride from JFK or they will refuse me?

THANK IN ADVANCE

 

[dispatchguy]

Pre 9/11 the FAA General Counsel came out with an interpretation of 121.547 which prohibited FAR 129 crew members to ride in the cockpit jumpseat, since FAR 129 operators (Foreign Air Carriers) are not "certificate holders" under the definition of FAR 1. Therefore, their crewmembers (even if they hold a US certificate, and are US citizens) are not authorized access to the cockpit jumpseat.

Post 9/11, my guess is extremely doubtful - since I doubt AZ would permit us to reciprocate and allow us to ride them - even in the cabin on a jumpseat pass. HP will permit AC guys to ride in the back (but I havent tried to ride AC so I dont know if its a 2-way street), and we'll permit crewmembers of a couple of other foreign airlines (China Airlines cargo - but only if theyre operating in the US - since arent they actually wetleasing a US registered aircraft with a US crew) - cabin seat required.

If you want to get to CALI, your best bet is to buy an ID90 ticket (or maybe a ZED ticket) on someone, or however your pass travel is setup with some carriers here domestically - but be advised, our flights have been very full, at least at my airline.

 

[crosscut]

HEy interesting post!


I would like to know what's the policy for jumpseatting in U.S. since I'm planning to go to LAX but my company ALITALIA flight everywhere but california! can I ask to DL or UA to give me a ride from JFK or they will refuse me?

THANK IN ADVANCE

Before "asking to DL or UA," go "ask to" your own jumpseat committee chairman - he'll have answers to all your "jumpseatting" questions. Otherwise, you appear to have different objectives.

 

[crosscut]

Pre 9/11 the FAA General Counsel came out with an interpretation of 121.547 which prohibited FAR 129 crew members to ride in the cockpit jumpseat, since FAR 129 operators (Foreign Air Carriers) are not "certificate holders" under the definition of FAR 1. Therefore, their crewmembers (even if they hold a US certificate, and are US citizens) are not authorized access to the cockpit jumpseat.

Post 9/11, my guess is extremely doubtful - since I doubt AZ would permit us to reciprocate and allow us to ride them - even in the cabin on a jumpseat pass. HP will permit AC guys to ride in the back (but I havent tried to ride AC so I dont know if its a 2-way street), and we'll permit crewmembers of a couple of other foreign airlines (China Airlines cargo - but only if theyre operating in the US - since arent they actually wetleasing a US registered aircraft with a US crew) - cabin seat required.

If you want to get to CALI, your best bet is to buy an ID90 ticket (or maybe a ZED ticket) on someone, or however your pass travel is setup with some carriers here domestically - but be advised, our flights have been very full, at least at my airline.

Why someone would so open so as to discuss what our FAR’s jumpseat interpretations are or aren’t is beyond me. If his intentions are well-meant, he should know better than asking these questions on a public forum. If he doesn’t know by now who he can or can’t jumpseat on or what his non-rev options are, he shouldn’t be allowed to do either one. Just give him a “get smart” wink and move along.

 

[FLYnMONKEYS]

Isn't Alitalia still on the AFL-CIO boycott list? Regardless, I don't think any 121 US airline is gonna take a foreign airline pilot.

 

[azdriver]

Why someone would so open so as to discuss what our FAR’s jumpseat interpretations are or aren’t is beyond me. If his intentions are well-meant, he should know better than asking these questions on a public forum. If he doesn’t know by now who he can or can’t jumpseat on or what his non-rev options are, he shouldn’t be allowed to do either one. Just give him a “get smart” wink and move along.

Before "asking to DL or UA," go "ask to" your own jumpseat committee chairman - he'll have answers to all your "jumpseatting" questions. Otherwise, you appear to have different objectives.

the doubts are increasing more and more!!!

-well I can't get Id90 or ZED before six month that's AZ policy for new hires

-we do not have a jump seat coordinator: here in europe the common policy is to ask to the captains and it's up to them. No regs or company policy at least in Italy and Spain as far as I know


- dear crosscut thanks to remind us all the security issue behind the jumpseatting policy and interpretation but I'm afraid these issue are of pubblic domain since you can buy FARs look on the internet and get much more information travelling around airports.... But I will "get smart" and don't talk about this on a pubblic forum anymore. Even because there is no needs to let people that does not know the reason behind a question judge them.

thanks to everybody else

 

[TurboS7]

Talk to the captain. Any airline that has U.S. reciprocal rights with the D.O.T. qualifies for the jumpseat. At worse it would have to be approved via dispatch office, Post 911. Good Luck. Since you fly for a flag international carrier it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[crosscut]

the doubts are increasing more and more!!!

-well I can't get Id90 or ZED before six month that's AZ policy for new hires

-we do not have a jump seat coordinator: here in europe the common policy is to ask to the captains and it's up to them. No regs or company policy at least in Italy and Spain as far as I know


- dear crosscut thanks to remind us all the security issue behind the jumpseatting policy and interpretation but I'm afraid these issue are of pubblic domain since you can buy FARs look on the internet and get much more information travelling around airports.... But I will "get smart" and don't talk about this on a pubblic forum anymore. Even because there is no needs to let people that does not know the reason behind a question judge them.

thanks to everybody else

If u thinks that jumpseatting is pubblic domain, I says again, “get smart.” I didn’t say FARs weren’t public domain – that was your own assumption/interpretation/translation (?) Soliciting for and “getting much more information traveling around airports” – I would say you are few attempts from finding out what the inside of the jail looks like, fellow-pilot. This information should not be discussed publicly as it is privy to only those involved. There are venues for pilots to gather jumpseat-related information – this forum is not one of them.

“The doubts are increasing more and more!!!” – That’s just what Captain Mohammed Atta and his subordinates would have said. You are correct – I should, probably, let my guard down. Thanks for the advice.

“Even because there is no needs to let people that does not know the reason behind a question judge them.”
Uh-ha…, yeah…, what you said.

 

[dispatchguy]

At worse it would have to be approved via dispatch office, Post 911. Good Luck. Since you fly for a flag international carrier it shouldn't be a problem.

Actually, thats the problem - theyre not a 121 carrier, but an FAR 129 carrier. Like the interpretation said (which is a public domain item), FAR 129 carriers aren't a "certificate holder" within the intent of FAR 121.547

As a dispatcher, if a Captain called me on a dial-up and asked for a clarification if a pilot from Alitalia, Lufthansa, Swiss, BA (even a Concorde driver), or any other Foreign Flag carrier if he could ride on a jumpseat authorization in the cabin (since he sure as heck isnt riding up front), I would say no - since he isnt legal under the recent (a few years ago anyway) interpretation of 121.547. He has to ride as a non-rev. Yeah, my airline has a nicely liberal cabin-riding J/S policy, but it's limited to 121/135 carriers.

I mean, in fairness, would they reciprocate? Sure, they may allow you to ride in the flight deck jumpseat (I rode an AF jumpseat CDG-ORD back in 1999), but you got on the plane with a regular revenue or non-rev ticket. On my AF flight, I had a regular passenger ticket/boarding pass for the flight - I introduced myself to the captain and asked if I could ride up front and watch - I showed him my DX license and he said Oui!

 

[crosscut]

Ya know, not everyone living off US soil is a terrorist.

Who said everyone was?

 

[cvsfly]

Agree. This discussion not appropiate for this board. Contact air carriers involved directly.

 

[FLYnMONKEYS]

This isn't any big secret. The fact is pilots jumpseat and foreign carrier airline pilots can't jumpseat on a us carrier.

 

[citdrver]

How about 135 pilots??

I work for a Part 135 Charter company. Wil the jumpseats or even a seat in the cabin ever open up to us? Or is it already open and we dont know it? I am always at the GA side of the airport and dont see you guys in the airlines much.


Thanks

 

[Two-9-9-TwoSet]

Hey crosscut

You're being a little too anal (can I say anal on a public forum? ooops) sorry webmaster !!

What's so wrong about gathering J/S info. from other flightcrews who are "in the know"??

Sometimes I might want to catch a ride on an airline that do not reciprocate and there might be crews from that company reading on this forum that can give me a better response, that way I can plan ahead and won't be stranded.

Even when the guy has gotten the info that you feel is soooooo secretive, he still needs to have the proper credentials before the captain would let him on the plane..what's so wrong with asking that on a public forum??

 

[crosscut]

Re: Hey crosscut

Originally posted by Two-9-9-TwoSet
You're being a little too anal (can I say anal on a public forum? ooops) sorry webmaster !!

What's so wrong about gathering J/S info. from other flightcrews who are "in the know"??

Sometimes I might want to catch a ride on an airline that do not reciprocate and there might be crews from that company reading on this forum that can give me a better response, that way I can plan ahead and won't be stranded.

Even when the guy has gotten the info that you feel is soooooo secretive, he still needs to have the proper credentials before the captain would let him on the plane..what's so wrong with asking that on a public forum??

Originally posted by Two-9-9-TwoSet on another forum
once upon a time...
I had trouble with a SWA agent once refusing me the jumpseat...I asked (very politely of course)if I could speak with the captain, a few minutes later, the SWA captain emerges from the jetway..came over and CHEWED ME OUT in front of all the passengers about how "you better watch what you say to the agents"...did I mention I was extremely polite to her??

She was just pissed that I tried to get the captain involved, I was new at it..and friends have always told me to always ask for the captain so I did...well, I learned a harsh lesson.

He refused the jumpseat and told me to "buy a ticket son"..

never gonna forget it....Little Rock, AR...

OAK based capt with a strong southern accent.

I'm probably gonna get slammed by some SWA groupie, but what the hell, it's a true story.

2992set

Well.., I guess.. I’m not the only anal one, huh?

The reason you, probably, were refused a jumpseat was because your employer doesn’t have a reciprocal agreement w/SWA and the reason you asked to see the Capt, thereby clearly undermining the agent’s authority in the presence of pax (when he/she was in the right), is because you’ve been reading too many jumpseat posts on the Internet. Hence my theory: people reading the Jumpseat info posts who have no legal right to jumpseat will, nevertheless, attempt to jumpseat because they are acting out based on they’ve been reading.

Here we go again: If your employer reciprocates with an airline, go see your superior (if no jumpseat committee) for all your jumpseat info/etiquette questions so that you, “son,” won’t be asked to buy a ticket.

This information should not be discussed publicly as it is privy to only those involved.

 

[TurboS7]

You guys and your egos just blow me away. Aviation does exist outside of the U.S. and it runs quite nicely I might add.

 

[crosscut]

Turbo, if standing your ground is ego, then you, too, are guilty.

 

[TurboS7]

Good point and I agree with you.

 

[TurboS7]

I am just talking about a seat in the back and not on the jumpseat up front. It is going to be a long time before an off-line person will be able to jumpseat wo direct authorization from the carrier D.O.O. or equivelant. We take Part 129 guys in the back and used to be on the js I go to ops today I will run that past them. Good point, and I agree with the FAR interpretation.

 

[jsoceanlord]

citdriver;

ATA, spirit, jet blue and a bunch of regionals will take part 135. maybe National and air tran will too.