Jumpseat and Politics

[Dan Roman]

Slaquer5, it sounds like the few you are talking about are beyond getting help from ProStan and just flat need to be disciplined by the company.
My position is if they don't want to listen to ProStan and heed their advice, they have thrown out their free get out of jail card.
ProStan can only do so much.

 

[Dan Roman]

Fubi,

I don't know what type of program your airline has but the following would surprise me if it isn't true:

1. Isolated incidents do get fixed by our Pro Stands and when necessary our CPs and I assume yours also.

2. The "true bad actors", less than 1%, know precisely where the line is and what they can get away with and when the union "must" represent them.

3. A "bad actor" is under no pressure/incentive to respond, comply with or engage with pro stds if they don't wish to. Again, this isn't their first rodeo and play the system like tournament level players.

4. Some wear their reputation as being a pain as a "badge of honor"...why? Because they can hold pro stds off at arms length while smiling politely in the CP's office saying, "I didn't violate the FOM, I flew the airplane within limits and my social skills suck...you can't fire me fro that?"....and so they walk.

While "hostile work environment" gives companies greater leeway than in the past, unions must still defend the bad actors. Who represents the FO (or CA) when he complains? Pro stands but again who have the leverage? The bad actor since he hasn't violated any directives but simply violated commonly acceptable modes of behavior.

Get the company out of the mix and let the associations work the issue internally with tools that can affect change. After the first couple of bad actors are marched through the gauntlet, other trouble children will not want to be dragged through the consequences or process.

Make it painful enough and people change behavior....we have programs for those with drug and alcohol problems and they are successful ...why? Because folks are motivated to not run afoul and suffer the pain/consequences....the same can be done for bad actors toward our own if we as pilots are willing to tackle the issue as group instead of leaving it to management.

This is very similar to what I am saying. My take is, the bad actor goes for CRM training on his day off if ProStan deems it necessary (most ProStan problems are CRM problems). If he refuses he is on his own.

 

[Dan Roman]

Gee, is it my breath? I was hoping to get a conversation going about different points of views on ProStan's expectations but the thread seems to have come to a halt.
Anybody else with a perspective on how ProStan should deal with problems?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Well, I can tell you this...our CP has been known to refer cases to ProStan because he wanted to give someone a break. If the Union could take care of the problem, then he didn't have to bring the weight of Company discipline down on them.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well, I can tell you this...our CP has been known to refer cases to ProStan because he wanted to give someone a break. If the Union could take care of the problem, then he didn't have to bring the weight of Company discipline down on them.

That's the way it is here too.

 

[humveedriver]

Ive never called pro Stan or had them call me. I have had some frank conversations with FO's and CA's depending on what seat I am in, and that made the trip at least tolerable if not almost pleasant. CRM can be a very fickle art depending on the combinations of personalities in the cockpit, cabin or gate. The skill set that I employed to be a supportive FO helped me equally in being a supportive Captain. I just think it's really important to "air" any issues at the gate before calling in the cavalry. Not sure how many pro standards issues are dealt with a come to jesus meeting between the two crewmembers first.