Job opening....bend over

[trainerjet]

The solution is simple. If this is not something that interests you, don't apply.

I doubt that anyone will change anything by ranting about it on this board.

 

[A Squared]

The solution is simple. If this is not something that interests you, don't apply.

I doubt that anyone will change anything by ranting about it on this board.

I wasn't aware that I was ranting. I thought I was describing how I would decide in my own mind whether I thought a training contract was a legiitmate effort to protect a company's training investment, or whether it was just a means of taking money from employees.

I'm not interested in USA jet, with or without a training contract, but that shouldn't exclude me from posting my thoughts on an issue that in some ways affects all of us who fly for a living.

regards

 

[Hubie]

Please tell me what is wrong with a company wanting to protect its investment...

I just hate to see the sense of entitlement many pilots have. Companies don't exist to employ pilots. The sooner we realize that, the better off this industry will be.

I too have bounced back and forth about that very same word, entitlement.

It does seem as if a good number of pilots feel, thru their words and actions that they are entitled to their training, that at some point it no longer becomes their responsibility to pay to continue their education by climbing the ratings ladder.

At what point should I refuse/stop to pay for my own education/training anymore, at the commercial level, CFI or the ATP?

What about those folks who are purchasing 737 types or have purchased 737 types to apply to Southwest?

The way I see it is this…

It is fine for me to buy as many ratings and types as my meager ole checkbook will afford as long as I’m not buying the job. (These two ideas are fundamentally different)
If I still must apply and interview, be placed in the pot with everyone else and the best candidate win I see nothing wrong with it.
IMO buying a type rating is nothing more than that, signing a training contract is nothing more than that.

You paid for your training as an investment in your future, the company paid for your training as an investment in its future.

Hubie

 

[trainerjet]

A Squared,

Sorry. My post wasn't directed at you or your post. I guess it's just where it fell in the stack, after your post, but I was just commenting in general about this particular job opening, and the subject of the thread.

Your posts are generally well thought out and informative.

 

[hyper]

If this is just a matter of them "protecting their investment", then why have they just started this? A year ago they didn't have such a contract. I do remember that. They're doing this now because they can. Because there are hard-up pilots eager for a job in todays market and they are taking advantage of that. Protecting their investment is understandable, and no, it's not an "entitlement" issue fly4. $18k is excessive no matter how you slice it and expecting someone to report to the field at any given page within 20 minutes is utterly ridiculous. Sounds like a way to hold someones feet to the fire once you've signed that contract.

The ironic part is that they have it backwards. They should have been asking for this contract back when jobs were easy and pilots were jumping ship for better things. They're asking for it now in a market where if you have a job you're going to stick with it because there are so few out there only because someone will be desperate enough to pay it. Sure, it's their option and someone will do it, but that doesn't mean it's justifiable.

As a side note: Airnet used to have a $7k training agreement for a year with a $1,000 signing bonus when jobs were plenty. Nothing out of pocket, just wanted you to stay a year. That's gone now. They know that it's unlikely you'll be going anywhere.

 

[getonit]

I think $18,000 is unreasonable especially if it is not prorated. But the way "to get out" is to have them fire you as opposed to quitting and with a 20 minute show time looks like you could have plenty of chances to screw up.

 

[hyper]

EXACTLY my point. Thanks.

 

[bobbysamd]

Training contracts v. you-know-what

I, too, recall this ad from before. The irony, if that's the right word, of them demanding the $18K training contract now as compared to even 1½ years ago is apparent.

As Trainerjet wrote above, no one is holding a gun to your head. I don't have a problem with signing training contracts as opposed to the unpopular other form of covering/recouping training costs. I signed a contract when I joined FSI and I would do it again. Moreover, this one's for two years; chances are there won't be much going on for such pilots for two years. In addtion, DC-9 time, especially PIC, might mean something in two years.

On the other hand, I agree; $18K is a bunch of committment. Besides, I don't think I'd care to be on a 20-minute pager notice for reasons others stated above.

 

[hyper]

And BTW, the YIP area is not a ghetto. It's actually a very blue-collar, working class neighborhood. Speak not of that which you don't know.

I never indicated that it was the ghetto. I figure you must have assumed that because I used the term "'hood"? It's short for neighborhood, not ghetto. And yes, I've been there-spent a month I'll never get back...wasn't impressed.

"Speak not of that which you don't know"? Thanks for keeping me policed but my statement is a matter of opinion. I am entitled to that, no?

 

[LR25]

USAJet, there actually not a bad company to be with.

Whatever the contract states, thats what it is.

No one is asking you to give them 18K, that is just the binder on your training.

If you owe up to "your" commitment, they will owe it to you.

And I do believe there history shows about a 1 year upgrade, things obviously havnt been normal lately but I do believe that is the norm.

The fact that some of you are complaining about companies wanting to protect there investment might be the reason these companies have to do this(no bashing intended).

I do believe though, that USAJet had a slew of folks go through there program (Simu-Flite initial DA-20) and right after they got there type, they quite and went to work for someone else that required them to have the type rating.

Put 2 and 2 together, and a company can not survive if they keep taking loses like that.

This is nothing new in the industry, and I dont consider it PFT.

Oh yeah, from what I have seen if YIP and the surrounding area. it doesnt seem that bad, I have definitely seen worse.