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JL Dumps Air Tran Stock

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SOOO let me try to understand the logic, Joe was running the forklift that day? Or was it Joe that told the crew to take lunch and leave the forklift in place? Or was it Joe who approved the proceedure? And Joe ordered the airplanes without stickshakers? Was joe loading bags too?

It was the procedure.

"The findings of the investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) were released on December 21, 1979.[1]. It revealed the probable cause to be attributable to damage to the left wing engine pylon that occurred during an earlier engine change at American Airlines's aircraft overhaul facility in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Evidence came from the flange, a critical part of the pylon assembly. It was revealed to be damaged before the crash, and investigators looked at the plane's maintenance history and found it was serviced eight weeks before the crash. The pylon was damaged due to an ill thought-out engine removal procedure. The original procedure called for removal of the engine prior to the removal of the engine pylon. To save time and costs, American Airlines, without the approval of McDonnell Douglas, had begun to use a faster procedure. They instructed their mechanics to remove the engine with the pylon all together as one unit. A large forklift was used to support the engine while it was being detached from the wing. This procedure was extremely difficult to execute successfully, due to difficulties with holding the engine assembly straight while it was being removed.
The procedure used for maintenance did not proceed smoothly. If the forklift was in the wrong position the engine would rock like a see-saw and jam against the pylon attachment points. The forklift operator was guided by hand and voice signals; the position had to be spot-on or could cause damage, but management was unaware of this. The modification to the aircraft involved in flight 191 didn't go smoothly; engineers started to disconnect the engine and pylon but changed shift halfway through; when work continued, the pylon was jammed on the wing and the forklift had to be re-positioned. This was important evidence because, in order to disconnect the pylon from the wing, a bolt had to be removed so that the flange could strike the clevis. The procedure used caused an indentation that damaged the clevis pin assembly and created an indentation in the housing of the self-aligning bearing, which in turn weakened the structure sufficiently to cause a small stress fracture. The fracture went unnoticed for several flights, getting worse with each flight that the plane had taken. During flight 191's takeoff, enough force was generated to finally cause the pylon to fail. At the point of rotation, the engine detached and was flipped over the top of the wing."
 
SOOO let me try to understand the logic, Joe was running the forklift that day? Or was it Joe that told the crew to take lunch and leave the forklift in place? Or was it Joe who approved the proceedure? And Joe ordered the airplanes without stickshakers? Was joe loading bags too?

look i just piss excellence ok? shake and bake!

he simply asked where the nickname came from and i told him. joe was the Mx jefe. that means the buck stops with him. he's the one who approved the cost saving measure at AA. valujet management got blamed for what they approved and looked the other way for. do you defend them for what they physically didn't do but were responsible for?

why do you love him and his hair piece?
 
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Funny how Joe takes the heat for what everyone else was doing.. People need to do some research..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

This method of engine-pylon removal was used to save man hours and was encouraged despite differences with the manufacturer's specifications on how the procedure was supposed to be performed. The accident investigation also concluded that the design of the pylon and adjacent surfaces made the parts difficult to service and prone to damage by maintenance crews. According to the History Channel[9], United Airlines and Continental Airlines were also using a one-step procedure. After the accident, cracks were found in the bulkheads of DC-10s in both fleets.
 
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Funny how Joe takes the heat for what everyone else was doing.. People need to do some research..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

This method of engine-pylon removal was used to save man hours and was encouraged despite differences with the manufacturer's specifications on how the procedure was supposed to be performed. The accident investigation also concluded that the design of the pylon and adjacent surfaces made the parts difficult to service and prone to damage by maintenance crews. According to the History Channel[9], United Airlines and Continental Airlines were also using a one-step procedure. After the accident, cracks were found in the bulkheads of DC-10s in both fleets.

Geez....what's wrong with you?? You want people to speak in terms or reality and facts, and not emotion?? Your expectations are sooooo high. :D
 
Joe Leonard was the boss. His department didn't do things right. By coincidence, some other airline's departments were also doing something un-right.

That doesn't diminish the FACT (pesky things, them!) that Joe's department cut a corner that led to the worst single-aircraft accident in US airline history.

I'm sure he's shed any personal accountability for that tragedy. Amoral scumbags are funny that way...

Let the record reflect there were plenty of other operators who were doing the procedure correctly, and managed to earn a profit at the time.

"Other people did it too!" is not a rational defense for complicity with a dangerous act.
 
Sorry, we can't. FORKLIFT JOE! FORKLIFT JOE!
 
Funny how Joe takes the heat for what everyone else was doing.. People need to do some research..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

This method of engine-pylon removal was used to save man hours and was encouraged despite differences with the manufacturer's specifications on how the procedure was supposed to be performed. The accident investigation also concluded that the design of the pylon and adjacent surfaces made the parts difficult to service and prone to damage by maintenance crews. According to the History Channel[9], United Airlines and Continental Airlines were also using a one-step procedure. After the accident, cracks were found in the bulkheads of DC-10s in both fleets.

did united or continental lose an engine on takeoff and crash? and for what it is worth i mentioned the fact that others did do it.
 
Continental....did the procedure first.... Get over it.....

Good luck Joe in retirement..... See Ya !! Hopefully Bobby will make nice with our labor groups !!! I can feel the luv starting to grow !!
 
Continental....did the procedure first.... Get over it.....

Good luck Joe in retirement..... See Ya !! Hopefully Bobby will make nice with our labor groups !!! I can feel the luv starting to grow !!

again for the 1000th time, JL was RESPONSIBLE for AA (not Continental, NWA, or any other DC10 operator) and he approved THEIR procedure (no matter who else was doing it). it was an AA DC10 that crashed, not Continental, NWA, etc.

get over your JL crush.
 
again for the 1000th time, JL was RESPONSIBLE for AA (not Continental, NWA, or any other DC10 operator) and he approved THEIR procedure (no matter who else was doing it). it was an AA DC10 that crashed, not Continental, NWA, etc.

get over your JL crush.

Just to keep the record straight; NWA had P&W engines on their DC-10's and never were involved in the "procedure" or the subsequent grounding.

~DC
 
Just to keep the record straight; NWA had P&W engines on their DC-10's and never were involved in the "procedure" or the subsequent grounding.

~DC

thank you for the clarification.
 
again for the 1000th time, JL was RESPONSIBLE for AA (not Continental, NWA, or any other DC10 operator) and he approved THEIR procedure (no matter who else was doing it). it was an AA DC10 that crashed, not Continental, NWA, etc.

get over your JL crush.

You seem to be an expert on airlines maybe you could answer what really happened with the Midwest crash in MKE? Something about stress corrosion cracking in the right engine, V1 cut issues?

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1987/AAR8701.htm
 
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What really happened with the Midwest crash in MKE? Something about stress corrosion cracking in the right engine?

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1987/AAR8701.htm

don't know. i do know the majority of most at MEH, including some at the FAA, believe the engine blades cut the cables and the crew had no flight control input and were simply along for the ride after the engine went. the company even backed the crew and has repeatedly tried to exonerate the crew postmortem. the engine shop was outsourced at the time as midwest was fairly young in life. certainly lesson learned.

we can talk about the outsourcing of maintenance and its catastrophic results all day as two crew members died at air midwest via the same fundamental problem......

what is your point? someone asked for the origin of "forklift" and after the explanation you comeback with this? are you a JL fan too? he apparently warrants you as diversification, sorry no more foreplay from forklift.

and as for your cheap attack on midwest (again i attack your management and you come back at our pilot group) as some "points" you're trying to make, shall we review the air tran dc-9 operating history in its infancy stage?

http://www.aviationaccidentlawnews-ntsb.com/html/safetyreports.html

....
AirTran Airways
AirTran Airways received an F rating for safety. Once under ValuJet the airline was rated by the FAA for being 13 times less safe than other lower cost U.S. airplanes. A high number of AirTran’s DC-9 jetliners have been involved in a large amount of serious aircraft accidents, leading their day to day safety operations to be in question. Since 1985 AirTran Airways has had 110 fatalities, 21 FAA incidents, 7 NTSB incidents, and 39 FAA violations/fines in 1997-2000.


.....
Midwest Express Airlines
Although Midwest Express Airlines had one major plane crash accident, the airlines have not had many other airline safety problems. Since 1985 Midwest Express Airlines has had 34 fatalities, 33 FAA incidents, 6 NTSB incidents, and 9 FAA violations/fines in 1997-2000.
...

 
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kharma one other thing regarding YX105. the company MENTIONS and even DESCRIBES the accident in great detail and passes out their synopsis and the NTSB synopsis during Indoc for EVERY worker at MEH. hoeksema even mentions it in his little 10 minute speech. it is a terrible reminder of failure at an airline.

i somehow do not think valujet 592 is mentioned at indoc at air tran or by fernaro when speaking to new employees. if i am wrong on this (as i have not been to air tran indoc) then i apologize.
 

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