JetBlue question.

[Cheesehead1]

I think it is interesting that we don't know yet if said docs passed or not. We knew within an hour of the alpa vote that it didn't pass...

 

[MikeSF340]

I'm going to training soon and don't really understand what these "docs" are or where I can read them. What is their purpose, who drafts them, are they binding, and what are the latest ones about? Thanks a lot......

 

[n757st]

The documents that every one is taking about are amendments to our PEAs that are supposed to give us some of the tools a CBA might provide without actually having a CBA. They fall short in a lot of measurements, first and for most by not having a definitions section.

As for pay, a lot of the discrepancy is commuter vs non commuter, 320 vs 190. As a 2nd year 320 non commuter I'm on task for ~95k, including an average of about 13 days off. I COULD NOT DO THIS AS A COMMUTER! The commuters making the big bucks with QOL to spare are the JFK guys flying aruba turns with a DH or have STI,SDQ etc one day lines. Those guys can make 100 hrs with 17 days off.

 

[Otto77]

Surprised the docs passed by that big of a margin. Could get real interesting around here.

 

[Lake Alice]

Most of our pilots make more money than many Legacy carrier pilots. With Captains makeing over 200k a year and a lot of FO's makeing over 100k a year. True, most legacy FO's make 100k+, but they are also doing that at 50 years old with 15+ years at the company. Our guys are doing it with 3+ years at JB. Many guys also have a better QOL. Not exactly leading the race to the bottom. Unemployment line? Really? How many JB pilots have ever been furloghed? I can't remember. Oh ya. "0".

Yes, Things need to be improved upon. Yes, in a court of law our 5 docs. will be torn apart, and probably not worth the paper they are printed on. A CBA might have been better for the group, but a CBA would also get torn apart in a court of law. That has been proven over and over again, and 1100+ of our pilots here have witnessed that first hand. Every JB pilot is just hoping the cards all fall in our direction, myself included of course.

I understand your anger and dissapointment, but this bolded section of your quote is complete incorrect and false.

We have no merger protection. The 2 mil is subject to dispersal AFTER we exhaust our individual resources. We have no scope clause. Do you know what the trigger is for section 15? We pay at least 20% more for health insurance than any other carrier. The DRM is an auto denial and where will you get the money/legal support to navigate mediation and arbitration. We have a 5% retirement which is anywhere between 8-20% less than every other carrier. We cannot differentiate between a sick bank and a vacation bank. Jetblue can appoint anyone they want to any committee we have except the PVC. I can continue.
The only bonus we have is we make an equal salary for substantially more work.

The characterization is overly fair.

 

[Flyby1206]

Surprised the docs passed by that big of a margin. Could get real interesting around here.

Me too, I thought it would pass by a small margin, but damn....

 

[Blue Dude]

It is difficult to overestimate the gullibility of this pilot group.

 

[StarChecker]

Every JB pilot is just hoping the cards all fall in our direction, myself included of course.

Don't speak for me....you don't speak for me. I'm trying to plan a career here and provide for my family ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN HOPE!

Is that all you got, Bluebelle?....HOPE?!?!

Keep hoping...let me know how much "hope" is going to make JetBlue something more than "it's better than Mesa"....putz

 

[MikeSF340]

What were the new docs about and what will change? THANKS!

 

[Otto77]

What were the new docs about and what will change? THANKS!

Changes to our individual PEA

 

[Flyby1206]

What were the new docs about and what will change? THANKS!

Basically outlines how bad things can be (Scope, codeshares, mergers, etc), and now it is something that the pilot group overwhelmingly approved. As opposed to something management crams down our throats.

I believe the next step is for it to be sent out to the entire pilot group so that we can each sign a piece of paper approving this change to our PEA (Personal Employment Agreement). I am still curious what happens if someone doesnt sign this ammendment.

See this thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=144584

 

[Beechnut]

Basically outlines how bad things can be (Scope, codeshares, mergers, etc), and now it is something that the pilot group overwhelmingly approved. As opposed to something management crams down our throats.

I believe the next step is for it to be sent out to the entire pilot group so that we can each sign a piece of paper approving this change to our PEA (Personal Employment Agreement). I am still curious what happens if someone doesnt sign this ammendment.

See this thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=144584

I'll let you know when I don't.

 

[BeachBummer]

i'll let you know when i don't.

~~~+1~~~

 

[Lake Alice]

Whether you sign the documents or not is irrelevant. The very fact that one pilot WILL sign them places all of us under the same umbrella. Should you decide to not sign you forfeit your portion of the 2 million dollars you may request after we are subject to a transactional event. Keep in mind the roughly 800 dollars you may request may be handed out AFTER you exhaust your own personal resources.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Don't speak for me....you don't speak for me. I'm trying to plan a career here and provide for my family ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN HOPE!

Is that all you got, Bluebelle?....HOPE?!?!

Keep hoping...let me know how much "hope" is going to make JetBlue something more than "it's better than Mesa"....putz

That is understandable, and I appoligize for speaking for you. If you don't hope that the cards fall well for the JB pilot group that is ok. Why you wouldn't hope that this experiment works out well for yourself doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It seems to me that you would want to keep your seniority at JB and have this job work out well, but hey to each there own. It beats going to the bottom of another seniority list and hopeing that job works out.

The next question I have is if you are so hell bent on going somewhere else, what place is that. Delta, SW, FEDEX? I am currious, as this is the question a lot of guys are asking themselves.

I am really interested as it appears our carreer paths have been very similar. Ex Airnet, 145 regional carrier, now JB

 

[Beechnut]

Whether you sign the documents or not is irrelevant. The very fact that one pilot WILL sign them places all of us under the same umbrella. Should you decide to not sign you forfeit your portion of the 2 million dollars you may request after we are subject to a transactional event. Keep in mind the roughly 800 dollars you may request may be handed out AFTER you exhaust your own personal resources.

Pathetic. I won't be draining the family resources down to nothing so be able to collect a crappy 800 from some half mythical 2 million. I'll keep my right to grieve with others without company permission.

 

[Lake Alice]

I suspect Jetblue leaderships expects the same.

 

[BeachBummer]

The next question I have is if you are so hell bent on going somewhere else, what place is that. Delta, SW, FEDEX? I am currious, as this is the question a lot of guys are asking themselves.

The thing is, is that I don't believe that most if anyone really wants to leave. If they do, let em go. But That's why many of us are so perplexed by these documents. I don't wanna go anywhere... but I'm not going to sign some thing that leaves all the windows and back door open.

If your worried about getting your fair share of that 2million... I laugh at you. Your share gets smaller with every new hire. $2000000/2300pilots= $869. Have fun buying your consultation and luch at wendy's on the way out the door.

These things are supposed to cover us in worst case scenerios and it doesn't even help us in some of the best ones.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

If we were part of a union we would be taking care of these cost ourselves as well. ALPA merger policy does not allow national funds or regular dues to be used during a merger(that may only be an ALPA/ALPA merger).


We would all have to pay into a seperate merger fund. I realize we would be able to use these funds collectivley though.

I wonder if it would be possible to set up our own fund similar to the BPF, with the sole purpose of collective merger representation, wether through the PVC or separately.

The reality is that we would have to pay for it either way.



Anybody think the JBPA will start up again?

 

[Flyby1206]

If we were part of a union we would be taking care of these cost ourselves as well. ALPA merger policy does not allow national funds or regular dues to be used during a merger(that may only be an ALPA/ALPA merger).


We would all have to pay into a seperate merger fund. I realize we would be able to use these funds collectivley though.

I wonder if it would be possible to set up our own fund similar to the BPF, with the sole purpose of collective merger representation, wether through the PVC or separately.

The reality is that we would have to pay for it either way.

Sounds like a good idea to me. I think there should be a separate elected merger committee that woud be in charge of using these funds if/when the moment came up.