JetBlue PVC/ Atkins and Co. Compensation video

[Splert]

$$$for nothin I hate to make it seem like i am singling you out as i did on the other thread but welcome aboard while you are here i invite you gather the facts find out the truths and be informed. This is not your regional job

facts dont lie and we are behind our peers in nearly every category and getting worse. Our management team loves to reinvent the wheel . It started with peerset average and a three year process where the process they created was not followed. Then along came contrarian.. Every time our elt opened their pie holes " contrarian this and that spewed out" Then along came " holistic aproach " the final rendition was the change from peerset average to peerset competitive. The legal interpretation 101 meaning of this is that " peerset average" is easily defined while " peerset competitive " is not what does it mean? Is 10% less competitive? 20%? Is the guy that comes in third place " competitive? Thats a management dream and doesnt make them look like fools when they cant meet their own obligations which has become the norm around here.

Another is Net Promoter Score every captain has a NPS here but it is unknown to them until they go to captain charm school. What defines it? How do you increase it? How do you see it? What about a captain that is on reserve and gets all the crap trips? Or redeyes? naturally his nps is going to be lower than the day island turn captain. The bottom line is that the pressure is on you to make sure your score is high but you receive no benefit becuase it is an executive compensation bonus plan. If the score meets a certain figure they all take a $1,000,000 bonus. You the captain? Nothing

A few years back they missed it miserably but voted to pay themselves anyways. CEO executive pay? increased by 77% over 2 years

Workrules and rigs? They are FAR based and suck

PTO accrual? Nearly 100% behind out peers as our vacations comes out of the pto bank [edit: Compared to Alaska and SWA we have less that 1/4 the vacation periods available. Doesn't matter if you have PTO. Take a look at the FSM and compare the two paragraph on Vacation to the pages in Alaska CBA and SWAPA's]
Insurance? worst in the industry

If you are injured cobra after 6 months and dumped after 18.. you will go bankrupt

the candy coating shell looks great on the outside but its what on the inside that counts and the fact is that jb has some real issues

also i am sure all the young guys never even give a thought to what could happen in the future because life is perfect but the reality is that what you have today or what you are earning today or how you feel today is not a guarantee that things will only get better for you either personally, professionally, or financially. Life happens things change families divorces and deaths happen. The best you life may ever be might be what it is today. Then again it may be better or worse.

Bottom line is that our retirment is inadequate given the high likelihood that you could become injured or suffer a medical issue that renders your high cost atp worthless.

PTO accrual? Nearly 100% behind out peers as our vacations comes out of the pto bank [edit: Compared to Alaska and SWA we have less that 1/4 the vacation periods available. Doesn't matter if you have PTO. Take a look at the FSM and compare the two paragraph on Vacation to the pages in Alaska CBA and SWAPA's]

If you are hired now or in the past 4 years YOU WILL NEVER BE AWARDED A SUMMER VACATION EVER UNDER THE DR - NEVER.

 

[banger]

I'm a 10 year JB guy. I cannot hold a vacation in the summer or last 2 weeks of December or March (springbreak)

 

[CapnVegetto]

I hear you all. Truly, I do. I'm not voting yes for ALPA. Period. I'll volunteer, donate my money (above and beyond the dues), vote, and actively support an in-house union in any way possible. I'll help with the drive. Whatever it takes.

I will not support sending a portion of dues to Washington DC to a union that primarily represents the interests of Delta Air Lines. My vote is no if ALPA is on the ballot.

Dude, I'm trying like hell to not be as mean as some of the people on here, but there's no other way to say it.....that is just f-cking Paris Hilton stupid.

First, ALPA national is headed by a Delta guy, sure. But once again, I don't know how many different ways I can say this to make you understand,

ALPA NATIONAL HAS NO SAY WHATSOEVER ON THE MATTERS OF YOUR LOCAL MEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE MAN!! For the love of God, FIGURE THAT OUT!!!! Get an Arc Welder or an Impact Drill or something and GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL!!!

Lee Moak can force your local MEC and reps to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I don't care if he loves Delta, he works for Delta, etc. etc. etc. HE CAN'T MAKE THEM DO ANYTHING!!!!!! He can ONLY advise and provide resources. If your local MEC does something you don't like, it is YOUR FAULT FOR LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!!

Your dues money doesn't go to support Delta interests either! It goes to support their bloated-ass budget for retreats, a magazine, and all that crap. I totally see your point on how it is wasted and worthless!! BUT....YOU CANNOT DISCOUNT THE BENEFITS THAT YOU GET FROM that 2%!!! ALPA legal, ALPA loss of license, ALPA Aeromedical, and most of all, A CBA!!! You don't get all the extra perks with an in-house, and you don't have the startup resources!! PLEASE GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL!!!

I don't care if we vote ALPA in, use them to get a first CBA, then toss their sorry Delta-loving fatcat a$$es out on the street the next day! I'm fine with that, but WE NEED THEM TO GET STARTED.

The biggest problem I have with you is that you can provide no logical, fact based argument whatsoever on why you won't vote for ALPA. All you can say is 'I don't like them!!' Dude, I know my maturity level on here isn't the greatest, but you are acting like a Kindergartner that got his lunch stolen by the fat kid. Waaaaaah Waaaaaaah!! I no likey ALPA!!! I no votey wotey for ALPA because they are meaney!!!!

You are not only hurting yourself with your unbelievably stupid and illogical position, you are hurting the other 2,000 or so of us at JetBlue that are trying to act like adults and make this place better. Most of us don't like ALPA either. Hell, I hate them. I've said it before. They are a bunch of overpaid, inflated windbag a$$holes. But they've got the resources that we need to get that first CBA.

Why are you cutting off your nose to spite your face? Why can't you grow up and act like a big boy instead of acting like an imbittered little shill? If you could provide some fact based logic as to why you won't vote for them I could at least respect that, but you can't. The only reason that you won't man up and face facts is jaded immaturity.

Grow up, dude.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm a 10 year JB guy. I cannot hold a vacation in the summer or last 2 weeks of December or March (springbreak)

Sickation. Its just as fun. You do have to buy offline revenue tickets though.

 

[Splert]

Sickation. Its just as fun. You do have to buy offline revenue tickets though.

Reliability Report is around the corner.

Why don't we just fix it instead of putting our careers at risk for what the company should be providing to employees.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Dude, I'm trying like hell to not be as mean as some of the people on here, but there's no other way to say it.....that is just f-cking Paris Hilton stupid.

First, ALPA national is headed by a Delta guy, sure. But once again, I don't know how many different ways I can say this to make you understand,

ALPA NATIONAL HAS NO SAY WHATSOEVER ON THE MATTERS OF YOUR LOCAL MEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE MAN!! For the love of God, FIGURE THAT OUT!!!! Get an Arc Welder or an Impact Drill or something and GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL!!!

Lee Moak can force your local MEC and reps to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! I don't care if he loves Delta, he works for Delta, etc. etc. etc. HE CAN'T MAKE THEM DO ANYTHING!!!!!! He can ONLY advise and provide resources. If your local MEC does something you don't like, it is YOUR FAULT FOR LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!!

Your dues money doesn't go to support Delta interests either! It goes to support their bloated-ass budget for retreats, a magazine, and all that crap. I totally see your point on how it is wasted and worthless!! BUT....YOU CANNOT DISCOUNT THE BENEFITS THAT YOU GET FROM that 2%!!! ALPA legal, ALPA loss of license, ALPA Aeromedical, and most of all, A CBA!!! You don't get all the extra perks with an in-house, and you don't have the startup resources!! PLEASE GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL!!!

I don't care if we vote ALPA in, use them to get a first CBA, then toss their sorry Delta-loving fatcat a$$es out on the street the next day! I'm fine with that, but WE NEED THEM TO GET STARTED.

The biggest problem I have with you is that you can provide no logical, fact based argument whatsoever on why you won't vote for ALPA. All you can say is 'I don't like them!!' Dude, I know my maturity level on here isn't the greatest, but you are acting like a Kindergartner that got his lunch stolen by the fat kid. Waaaaaah Waaaaaaah!! I no likey ALPA!!! I no votey wotey for ALPA because they are meaney!!!!

You are not only hurting yourself with your unbelievably stupid and illogical position, you are hurting the other 2,000 or so of us at JetBlue that are trying to act like adults and make this place better. Most of us don't like ALPA either. Hell, I hate them. I've said it before. They are a bunch of overpaid, inflated windbag a$$holes. But they've got the resources that we need to get that first CBA.

Why are you cutting off your nose to spite your face? Why can't you grow up and act like a big boy instead of acting like an imbittered little shill? If you could provide some fact based logic as to why you won't vote for them I could at least respect that, but you can't. The only reason that you won't man up and face facts is jaded immaturity.

Grow up, dude.

Wow. Grow up? Seriously? Read your asinine post again.

Anyway, thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Dizel8]

I don't care for ALPA National, and the beauty of it all is that I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else.

You certainly don't, so there we are, living with the DR!

 

[Flyby1206]

Wow. Grow up? Seriously? Read your asinine post again.

Anyway, thanks for the chuckle.

Do you have any rational arguments against anything in his post?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Do you have any rational arguments against anything in his post?

He doesn't. I just don't have the patience and tolerance for stupidity that some have.

His two line response indicates he has no logical argument at all. That is what makes me angry. If he at least had a REASON, I could probably live with it. But he doesn't. His position is just so motherf-cking DUMB.

 

[Dizel8]

Just a guess, but I think there are ulterior motives involved here!

 

[B6Busdriver]

JetBlue pilots...cutting of their nose to spite their face for over 13 years!

 

[Otto77]

reading this thread has me as optimistic of alpa getting voted in as compared to the presidential election. Despite all the logical facts and info, folks still don't get the big picture

No worries though guys..enjoy that high "health insurance" package that we get to deal with.

 

[banger]

Sometimes you just have to go around people like that. You try logic, you explain how it works, you show what the majority of like minded people are doing and if it doesn't work you move on.

 

[Splert]

Flew with a Comair pilot. Hates ALPA because he was not integrated into Delta after DAL bought Comair.

I asked him if his current airline bought Cape Air would he want Cape Air integrated DOH?

Crickets.

It is all about them but they have to try and make the issue larger than that; but it isn't.

it is about them and only them.

I'm sure ASA_avawhatever is pissed at DALPA because they did not hand over more of their customers for him/her to fly in larger and larger aircraft or DAL did not integrate is C172 experience into DAL.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Flew with a Comair pilot. Hates ALPA because he was not integrated into Delta after DAL bought Comair.

I asked him if his current airline bought Cape Air would he want Cape Air integrated DOH?

Crickets.

It is all about them but they have to try and make the issue larger than that; but it isn't.

it is about them and only them.

I'm sure ASA_avawhatever is pissed at DALPA because they did not hand over more of their customers for him/her to fly in larger and larger aircraft or DAL did not integrate is C172 experience into DAL.

Look guys, I'm not going to discuss on a public forum why I feel the way I do about ALPA in detail. This place isn't exactly anonymous.

My reason boils down to this, without getting into details; I believe that an in-house union will better represent the pilot group, despite the initial financial disadvantages. I also do not believe that we would be able to vote them in, get a CBA, and then decertify them (which I have ethical issues with anyway).

If we vote in a union, I want to be able to say that it is the best, least corrupt, and least "political" union that is made up of only JetBlue pilots. That ain't ALPA folks, and I will vote no if they are on the ballot.

 

[banger]

Look guys, I'm not going to discuss on a public forum why I feel the way I do about ALPA in detail. This place isn't exactly anonymous.

My reason boils down to this, without getting into details; I believe that an in-house union will better represent the pilot group, despite the initial financial disadvantages. I also do not believe that we would be able to vote them in, get a CBA, and then decertify them (which I have ethical issues with anyway).

If we vote in a union, I want to be able to say that it is the best, least corrupt, and least "political" union that is made up of only JetBlue pilots. That ain't ALPA folks, and I will vote no if they are on the ballot.

I don't agree with you but I realize you won.t vote for ALPA. But please don't rationalize yourself into believing there will be an in-house union. I fly with a lot of guys that don't want a union so they just say that. It just plays into the DR's plan. Just man up and say I won't vote for a union.

 

[Splert]

Look guys, I'm not going to discuss on a public forum why I feel the way I do about ALPA in detail. This place isn't exactly anonymous.

My reason boils down to this, without getting into details; I believe that an in-house union will better represent the pilot group, despite the initial financial disadvantages. I also do not believe that we would be able to vote them in, get a CBA, and then decertify them (which I have ethical issues with anyway).

If we vote in a union, I want to be able to say that it is the best, least corrupt, and least "political" union that is made up of only JetBlue pilots. That ain't ALPA folks, and I will vote no if they are on the ballot.

By not voting for ALPA you are voting for a much more corrupt system.

Imagine if our ELT was the leadership of ALPA while being the ELT of this airline. You don't have to imagine because that's the DR and an in house will be no better.

The idea of an in house is great but setting one up will take 3 years and 3 sfter that will be blown away by the company and we will be right back here except 10 years after the failed JBPA vote. The company wins again.

An in-house would have been great 12 years ago because we would have had ALPA 7 years ago.

 

[Smarta$$]

Look guys, I'm not going to discuss on a public forum why I feel the way I do about ALPA in detail. This place isn't exactly anonymous.

My reason boils down to this, without getting into details; I believe that an in-house union will better represent the pilot group, despite the initial financial disadvantages. I also do not believe that we would be able to vote them in, get a CBA, and then decertify them (which I have ethical issues with anyway).

If we vote in a union, I want to be able to say that it is the best, least corrupt, and least "political" union that is made up of only JetBlue pilots. That ain't ALPA folks, and I will vote no if they are on the ballot.

Political as in Democrat-Republican? Or internal union political?

 

[kellwolf]

To those that don't support ALPA but want a union, here's your answer: during the first voting drive, it's a vote for representation. You also get to vote on WHO represents you. You can write in whoever you want, even an in-house union. So, if the in-house gets more votes than ALPA, they represent the pilot group.

I honestly don't care which representation you vote for, at least vote "yes" on the representation issue.

 

[$$$4nothin]

$$$for nothin I hate to make it seem like i am singling you out as i did on the other thread but welcome aboard while you are here i invite you gather the facts find out the truths and be informed. This is not your regional job

facts dont lie and we are behind our peers in nearly every category and getting worse. Our management team loves to reinvent the wheel . It started with peerset average and a three year process where the process they created was not followed. Then along came contrarian.. Every time our elt opened their pie holes " contrarian this and that spewed out" Then along came " holistic aproach " the final rendition was the change from peerset average to peerset competitive. The legal interpretation 101 meaning of this is that " peerset average" is easily defined while " peerset competitive " is not what does it mean? Is 10% less competitive? 20%? Is the guy that comes in third place " competitive? Thats a management dream and doesnt make them look like fools when they cant meet their own obligations which has become the norm around here.

Another is Net Promoter Score every captain has a NPS here but it is unknown to them until they go to captain charm school. What defines it? How do you increase it? How do you see it? What about a captain that is on reserve and gets all the crap trips? Or redeyes? naturally his nps is going to be lower than the day island turn captain. The bottom line is that the pressure is on you to make sure your score is high but you receive no benefit becuase it is an executive compensation bonus plan. If the score meets a certain figure they all take a $1,000,000 bonus. You the captain? Nothing

A few years back they missed it miserably but voted to pay themselves anyways. CEO executive pay? increased by 77% over 2 years

Workrules and rigs? They are FAR based and suck

PTO accrual? Nearly 100% behind out peers as our vacations comes out of the pto bank

Insurance? worst in the industry

If you are injured cobra after 6 months and dumped after 18.. you will go bankrupt

the candy coating shell looks great on the outside but its what on the inside that counts and the fact is that jb has some real issues

also i am sure all the young guys never even give a thought to what could happen in the future because life is perfect but the reality is that what you have today or what you are earning today or how you feel today is not a guarantee that things will only get better for you either personally, professionally, or financially. Life happens things change families divorces and deaths happen. The best you life may ever be might be what it is today. Then again it may be better or worse.

Bottom line is that our retirment is inadequate given the high likelihood that you could become injured or suffer a medical issue that renders your high cost atp worthless.

I am not sure why you would think that I don't agree with everything you just said.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I don't agree with you but I realize you won.t vote for ALPA. But please don't rationalize yourself into believing there will be an in-house union. I fly with a lot of guys that don't want a union so they just say that. It just plays into the DR's plan. Just man up and say I won't vote for a union.

At least I'm being honest. Most people smile and nod in agreement, then vote the other way when no one is watching.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Some people will never "get it." Let's focus on presenting the facts and hope the majority use logic when making a decision. The ALPA haters are fueled by emotion, which is what the DR relies on. The DR uses logic, and it feeds off the emotion of the employeees. It's Business 101. The fact that B6 now has the worst health care among peers has opened the eyes of many previous no voters. Sadly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. More changes will follow, compliments of the DR. Make no mistake......premium pay is in their crosshairs.

To all the ALPA haters, the only thing stopping you from forming an in-house union is......YOU.

 

[Splert]

At least I'm being honest. Most people smile and nod in agreement, then vote the other way when no one is watching.

PM an in-house interest card when you start the campaign.

I think 3 x 5 index cards are about $2.19 per 300. 3000 cards will cost less than $30.00.

Until you send these cards out you are lying to yourself that you would vote for an in-house. Unless you start it YOURSELF ... no one else will. So the vote is between the DR and ALPA. Not voting for ALPA is NOT voting for an in house and is INSTEAD a vote to keep your COO the CEO of the DR and that has worked out great over the past 5 years.

The only thing stopping the in house effort is those that are in favor of it, like you, are doing NOTHING.

Maybe that was what was wrong at ASA. You were waiting around for someone else to do stuff for you.

It doesn't work that way.

 

[N813CA]

JetBlue is a great place to work. I am sorry that there is the 10% that will never be happy. Ask the people that have come over to JetBlue that have retired from other legacy airlines...............................

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

JetBlue is a great place to work. I am sorry that there is the 10% that will never be happy. Ask the people that have come over to JetBlue that have retired from other legacy airlines...............................

And you came from where...?

 

[Splert]

JetBlue is a great place to work. I am sorry that there is the 10% that will never be happy. Ask the people that have come over to JetBlue that have retired from other legacy airlines...............................

I agree ask them ... you will find them at their legacy airlines.

It was a great place to work until they got their recall.

They only pilot to "retire" from other legacy are those inbreed folks from US Airways and they did that to keep what was left of their pension.

Funny how that works.

We have a CP going around telling anyone that still listens to him that when he left Emery he left with "only a magazine subscription".

Then he has to be reminded that he also left with his pension?

CP: "Oh yeah that too".

Quality leadership.

 

[jonjuan]

And you came from where...?

Mesa...........

 

[B6Busdriver]

JetBlue is a great place to work. I am sorry that there is the 10% that will never be happy. Ask the people that have come over to JetBlue that have retired from other legacy airlines...............................

Yeah like the retired Delta guy that can't wait to leave? It's a great place to work as long as you firmly plant your head in the sand. I've enjoyed my job everywhere I have ever worked, from a fleabag check hauler to a crappy regional and several major airlines. We are behind most every major airline out there, it's plain and simple.

 

[banger]

JetBlue is a great place to work. I am sorry that there is the 10% that will never be happy. Ask the people that have come over to JetBlue that have retired from other legacy airlines...............................

It can be a great place to work! No doubt I enjoy it. The problem is often the leadship here which is making millions siphoning off money with their pet side deals. (aircraft are leased thru the director of the BOD's company, M.Barger owns the caterer, etc...) The company is run as an airline rather poorly. Luckily JB fell into a hugh goldmine of JFK and no matter how much money they waste its been hard to lose money. They try to get some of it back by squeezing crewmembers. How would you like to be in the top 1/5th of all pilots and never be able to get a vacation in the summer. Or never be successful at dropping or adding trips in a 24hr swap period. How about never having enough reserves to ever drop a trip and you need to call in sick to get off. Or the need to fly to the FAR limits to get average pay. Or being promised so many things that never happen because there is no CBA. The 2008 work rules agreed to, have not been implemented yet because they say it requires updated software.
Health care is awful, Lies about the retirement, extremely poor reserve lifestyle. With just a few changes this place would go from descent to great but without pushing this ELT it will never happen

 

[$$$4nothin]

And you came from where...?

Does it really matter where he came from. The only thing that matters is the way he will vote. Nothing wrong with being happy as long as you see the facts as they are and vote accordingly.