JetBlue PVC/ Atkins and Co. Compensation video

[$$$4nothin]

$$$$ your a dreamer and your math is flawed.
Jetblue pilots keep thinking your Mickey Mouse High School Committees are going to level the playing fields, here to tell you they are not.
While you guys play your home room elementary class president antics your leaving millions behind that someday you will need as cost of living continues to rise and health care goes up.
Jetblue was an interesting experiment but its time you guys get real.

I am as solid of a yes vote as you will get, and I agree with you 100%. I am just stateing the numbers as I see them on 3rd party retirement calculators. Not sure how my math is flawed. Would love to learn how it is though if in fact it is.

 

[labbats]

I am as solid of a yes vote as you will get, and I agree with you 100%. I am just stateing the numbers as I see them on 3rd party retirement calculators. Not sure how my math is flawed. Would love to learn how it is though if in fact it is.

I appreciate your sentiment and see where you came up with the final numbers, but it's the initial numbers that will vary.

Who has $50,000 in retirement at 30? Very few of us do.

Who gets hired at JetBlue at 30? What is the average age of a newhire class? I'm willing to bet it's closer to 40.

Lastly $12,500 to spend a month sounds like a lot of money, but by the time inflation starts spinning up (and it will) that amount will seem like $2500 a month in today's dollars.

Redo the numbers starting with a 40 year old with zero retirement. Then adjust the money downward at 2% a year for inflation. Should be an eye opener.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I am as solid of a yes vote as you will get, and I agree with you 100%. I am just stateing the numbers as I see them on 3rd party retirement calculators. Not sure how my math is flawed. Would love to learn how it is though if in fact it is.

It isn't flawed. People just want to not save, yet still get a huge retirement. That's so 1950s... Come on and join the rest of us in the real world please. (Not directed at you)

 

[8vATE]

Looks like you failed reading comprehension 101. I SAID helped lower the bar. Ask anyone that was at a major airline post 911, the JetBlue pay rates were brought up by management repeatedly.

Thanks to guys like you this group is stuck in the mud spinning its wheels. What do you suggest, do nothing? Close your eyes and hope for the best?

ALPA negotiated list? You mean when both sides couldn't come to terms so they let it go to BINDING arbitration? Talk about revisionist history. US Air guys...living in the past and bitter to the grave.

How about your reading skill...?
I said "arbitrated"...

My recommendation...?

Vote with your feet.

Or in house Union.

If ALPA can reorganize themselves in to something better, I would consider them again.

 

[donvag]

I understand that younger pilots flying at smaller ailines would apply and want to get hired at JB. I would advise them to investigate carefully. It is not a place to come if you don't have a second retirement (military) or other way of getting health care (wife). It is not a career job. Pay is acceptable but beenfits and long term career is lacking and knowing what I do about management leads me to believe they have no intent of improving that. JB with the individual contracts is an experiment to see how much money can be mined from employee groups.
It can be a descent life if you live in base and only need a salary. However if you are young and want to have a career I would highly recommend one of the real major airlines.

Im on the situation you are stating (we are on my wife's insurance and I live in base) and Im thinking about leaving. I really don't see improvement unless we get a CBA. I saw the entire video, if B6 management were not planning for the 9-11 concessions to run out and pilots getting paid what they are worth. They are either naive or simply missed supply and demand.

 

[Smarta$$]

I appreciate your sentiment and see where you came up with the final numbers, but it's the initial numbers that will vary.

Who has $50,000 in retirement at 30? Very few of us do.

Who gets hired at JetBlue at 30? What is the average age of a newhire class? I'm willing to bet it's closer to 40.

Lastly $12,500 to spend a month sounds like a lot of money, but by the time inflation starts spinning up (and it will) that amount will seem like $2500 a month in today's dollars.

Redo the numbers starting with a 40 year old with zero retirement. Then adjust the money downward at 2% a year for inflation. Should be an eye opener.

Anyone who is 40 with nothing saved is a fool. By 35 I had over 100k in my 401k, and I'm not special...

 

[B6Busdriver]

How about your reading skill...?
I said "arbitrated"...

My recommendation...?

Vote with your feet.

Or in house Union.

If ALPA can reorganize themselves in to something better, I would consider them again.

You can have your weak you know what in-house union.
Are you ready to pay thousands in assessments?
Are you ready to pay higher dues and get less?

What is your beef about ALPA?
Why can't you put emotion aside?
Why not vote ALPA in and if it is sooo bad we can go in-house after getting our first contract. ALPA=re$sources

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Anyone who is 40 with nothing saved is a fool. By 35 I had over 100k in my 401k, and I'm not special...

No doubt. JetBlue is not the entity you should be blaming if you're 40 and haven't saved anything for retirement. Look in the mirror.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

You can have your weak you know what in-house union.
Are you ready to pay thousands in assessments?
Are you ready to pay higher dues and get less?

What is your beef about ALPA?
Why can't you put emotion aside?
Why not vote ALPA in and if it is sooo bad we can go in-house after getting our first contract. ALPA=re$sources

I dunno. ALPA is like cancer, once you get it, you're never going to get rid of it.

ALPA won't get my yes vote.

 

[labbats]

No doubt. JetBlue is not the entity you should be blaming if you're 40 and haven't saved anything for retirement. Look in the mirror.

This isn't a reflection of my status it's just to show a different set of numbers from what he came up with. I came up with age 40 as an average new hire age. Use whatever age you think it is and adjust the amount of savings down accordingly.

 

[Smarta$$]

This isn't a reflection of my status it's just to show a different set of numbers from what he came up with. I came up with age 40 as an average new hire age. Use whatever age you think it is and adjust the amount of savings down accordingly.

Why, to show what happens when you take no responsibility for your own finances? Anyone who is 40,or 35, or even 30 without any personal retirement savings is a fool.

 

[banger]

I agree with everything except the bold portion here. While we are way behind our peers when it comes to retirement you can easily retire here with a little discipline and planning. Now I know that a lot of our generation doesnt like those words, but it is neccesary regardless of what airline you go to. This being said. Lets assume a pilot comes to JB at 30 and stays until retirement age(unlikely for so many reasons I know, but just go with it). If you max out the allowable 401K amount of $17,5000/yr. Add to that the 8+ thousand that the company matches/adds each year depending on your pay rate. Assume a 6% return and you have millions of dollars when you retire. Around 3 million actually. This assumes that a typical 30 year old would currently have about $50k in retirement accounts upon reaching JB. Assume you live until 85. This gives you 3 million to spend with 240 months to live. That gives you about $12,500 a month to spend. Yes you will get raped on taxes, but you will also continue to gain interest on this money from 65-85 so I am cancelling each of those out. With no debt $12,500/mo in retirement isn't exactly having to rough it. So as you are correct in every other statement you can retire quite comfortably from JB without a military or other retirement as long as you plan. Yes I am aware that going to Delta will make about a 1.2 million difference in the good direction to this number at age 65. I am just stateing some facts here.

I'm 55, I have way north of the 3miilion you quote and a mil retirement to boot and I can tell you it won't be enough. I'm not a big spender, don't have the CA house, one car, take a reasonably fun vacation once a year. Couple of kids. Live very middle class. The funds I have would not be attainable by any 30 year old saving money at JB. If all you want to do in retirement is live by the river and fish I guess it would be enough. But Uncle Sam is coming after the money. He will soon drive up inflation and tax to the point that brings me back to the middle and drives the poorer folks up to the middle. JB is not the place to come unless you want to retire in TENN and fish down at the river (no slam on anyone from the Volunteer state)

 

[rjpilot7667]

I dunno. ALPA is like cancer, once you get it, you're never going to get rid of it.

ALPA won't get my yes vote.

Please don't take offense, but, are you new? I just can't imagine someone working at JB who accepts what is going on and can say no to a great partner like ALPA; regardless what your MEC may have done at your last airline.

I have a business on the side for which I have a partner and sometimes I hate the guy; I mean hate him. But at the end of the day, he's great at what he does and I'm better off with him than without him. He has everything I don't when it comes to that portion of the business for which he runs.

In the end it's a business decision and my advice is to partner up with the professionals that have been doing this for decades and can lead us to where we need to be. JB management holds all the cards, we build this company every day, we should get a bigger piece of the pie we made.

I like this company and I want to do at least as well as it is doing.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Please don't take offense, but, are you new? I just can't imagine someone working at JB who accepts what is going on and can say no to a great partner like ALPA; regardless what your MEC may have done at your last airline.

I have a business on the side for which I have a partner and sometimes I hate the guy; I mean hate him. But at the end of the day, he's great at what he does and I'm better off with him than without him. He has everything I don't when it comes to that portion of the business for which he runs.

In the end it's a business decision and my advice is to partner up with the professionals that have been doing this for decades and can lead us to where we need to be. JB management holds all the cards, we build this company every day, we should get a bigger piece of the pie we made.

I like this company and I want to do at least as well as it is doing.

I hear ya. It's nothing personal. Hell will freeze over before I vote yes to ALPA. That goes for now as well as 5 years from now.

 

[Flyby1206]

I hear ya. It's nothing personal. Hell will freeze over before I vote yes to ALPA. That goes for now as well as 5 years from now.

So if you dont have a personal reason for voting against ALPA, then you have a rational business related reason why that wouldnt be better for your career compared to the current DR?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

So if you dont have a personal reason for voting against ALPA, then you have a rational business related reason why that wouldnt be better for your career compared to the current DR?

Sometimes you do things just on principle, even if it isn't in your personal interest. In fact, doing something on principle ONLY means something in those cases. It's easy to be principled when the principle is in line with your interests.

I don't care for ALPA National, and the beauty of it all is that I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else.

 

[Flyby1206]

Sometimes you do things just on principle, even if it isn't in your personal interest. In fact, doing something on principle ONLY means something in those cases. It's easy to be principled when the principle is in line with your interests.

I don't care for ALPA National, and the beauty of it all is that I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else.

You're a better man than me.

I was just trying to understand if there was any reason not to vote for a union, but I understand if you have personal issues you dont want to discuss that leads you to that conclusion. Good luck.

 

[banger]

Sometimes you do things just on principle, even if it isn't in your personal interest. In fact, doing something on principle ONLY means something in those cases. It's easy to be principled when the principle is in line with your interests.

I don't care for ALPA National, and the beauty of it all is that I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone else.

Jetblue has made a lot of mistakes but you have to admit it has done a really good job socially engineering the pilot group here.

 

[Chairman]

I'm 55, I have way north of the 3miilion you quote and a mil retirement to boot and I can tell you it won't be enough. I'm not a big spender, don't have the CA house, one car, take a reasonably fun vacation once a year. Couple of kids. Live very middle class. The funds I have would not be attainable by any 30 year old saving money at JB. If all you want to do in retirement is live by the river and fish I guess it would be enough. But Uncle Sam is coming after the money. He will soon drive up inflation and tax to the point that brings me back to the middle and drives the poorer folks up to the middle. JB is not the place to come unless you want to retire in TENN and fish down at the river (no slam on anyone from the Volunteer state)

Have to disagree, it's all about priorities. First of all 3m would easily give you 120k a year without ever touching your principle plus your military retirement. I am 34 with over 200k in retirement personally and have only made 100k 1 year in the 16 years I have been earning a living in this profession. Start early pay off your debt and stay that way and its easy to do and save for a kids college. It has not been easy street either 3 furloughs, 2 flight departments shut down. Just avoid the divorce and we should be fine. Thank you Dave Ramsey... Again its all about priorities..

Chairman

 

[rjpilot7667]

Jetblue has made a lot of mistakes but you have to admit it has done a really good job socially engineering the pilot group here.

In business, you work with what you have; not what you want. After 9-11 pilots had no leverage. Now we do intact we hold most of the cards.