Jetblue pilots begin organization drive...

[Spectre]

Nice back pedalling. Fact, DALPA does have a problem with this FAA decision. You were grossly wrong to state otherwise. Fact, the change in duty times was the result of the latest studies in fatigue. You were wrong to state otherwise. Fact, the Delta pilots did not use paying passengers to conduct any of these studies, unlike the willing participation of JBLU pilots.

Even when you are presented with the fact that DALPA has had limited to no input on this decision and objects to this decision by the FAA, you continue to state that DALPA has "ALLOWED" for an increase. You must be real stupid or so bitter and resentful that you can no longer differentiate between the facts and your own anti-ALPA resentments/hatred, no matter the facts.

How can anyone respect your inputs Homer...DOOUUHHH!!!

 

[LandGreen]

Don't worry....the ALPA naysayers at JetBlue represent an ever increasing miniority of pilots...Well below 40%, and mostly include those who are sitting left seat A320, crediting 85 plus hours a month. The rest of the pilots WILL carry the majority vote and control the direction of future improvements! It seems like a slam dunk from my perspective

 

[Andy]

Don't worry....the ALPA naysayers at JetBlue represent an ever increasing miniority of pilots...Well below 40%, and mostly include those who are sitting left seat A320, crediting 85 plus hours a month. The rest of the pilots WILL carry the majority vote and control the direction of future improvements! It seems like a slam dunk from my perspective

That will be good. I foresee a lot of cost cutbacks in JBLU's future. Without organized representation, the pilots will be at the mercy of management.

 

[B6Driver]

Don't worry....the ALPA naysayers at JetBlue represent an ever increasing miniority of pilots...Well below 40%, and mostly include those who are sitting left seat A320, crediting 85 plus hours a month. The rest of the pilots WILL carry the majority vote and control the direction of future improvements! It seems like a slam dunk from my perspective

Wrong on all accounts.
Keep up the good work.

 

[IB6 UB9]

That will be good. I foresee a lot of cost cutbacks in JBLU's future. Without organized representation, the pilots will be at the mercy of management.

If recent history has any say, would you not agree that 'with organized representation, the pilots will be at the mercy of management'? I am in no means trying to have an unhealthy debate here...just curious what advantage it would be to have ALPA on the property.

 

[Andy]

If recent history has any say, would you not agree that 'with organized representation, the pilots will be at the mercy of management'? I am in no means trying to have an unhealthy debate here...just curious what advantage it would be to have ALPA on the property.

The ability to negotiate versus unilateral management cuts in benefits.

 

[IB6 UB9]

The ability to negotiate versus unilateral management cuts in benefits.

I guess what I am saying is it certainly hasn't helped anyone else recently. I am afraid that we will spend years negotiating back what we already have if ALPA is voted in...only to find ourselves right back in the same position. If someone can convince me otherwise I'll listen. Did you take your recall yet?

 

[Bake]

Hey 69, and I won't be your 9 sorry.

You are speaking of Alpa and their recent furloughs, paycuts, pension failures etc. etc. I completely understand your argument. What you don't see is what goes on behind the scenes. At Swapa we have many pay issues, military affairs, our 401K, and many other issues that are hammered out with SWA every month. One person could not possibly win some of the pay issues, contract issues, etc against our company that the union has the ability to do. While SWAPA does get along with the company very well we still have our differences. Scheduling issues are probably our biggest issues with SWA. We just want them to follow what we perceive is the contract while they also think they are following the contract. You need some power behind your rights therefore a union or some type of association that has the legal power to negotiate with the corporation is a good thing. Just my opinion, I don't know much about JB so take that for what it is worth.

respectfully
Bake

 

[jbucpt]

That will be good. I foresee a lot of cost cutbacks in JBLU's future. Without organized representation, the pilots will be at the mercy of management.

now thats funny!! i've been very impressed with the way ALPA has fought/negotiated all the cutbacks the last 5 years. i.e. loss of retirement, loss of pay, loss of jobs and allowing DELTA PILOTS to have an increase in duty/flight time. very, very impressive. (well worth the 1.95)

its my opinion that when? a union is voted in a B6, it will be in-house. ALPA'S record (of when it really counts) proves that ALPA protection is a fallacy.

"We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has."

 

[J32driver]

I am afraid that we will spend years negotiating back what we already have if ALPA is voted in...only to find ourselves right back in the same position. If someone can convince me otherwise I'll listen. Did you take your recall yet?

Just depends on how much the leadership wants to jack with the pilot group and how much they want to harm the product. If the negotiations wind up protracted and at a stalemate, pilots will leave the company and the product will suffer because of it. I don't think D squared wants that any more than the pilots due. As long as both sides have very realistic economic and timeline expectations, there's no reason negotiations can't be beneficial to both sides.

 

[lowecur]

It's Only A Matter Of When

Jeepers, it's all really very simple (as long as mgt has financial & leadership credibility):

Any group of pilots that doesn't put their airline's financial future ahead of their own personal compensation, more than likely sees no long term future for any carrier within the industry. Representation is not bad as long as the manta that the airline comes first is at the forefront. If it get's pushed to the back because the pilot's believe management is either inept or overpaid, then the revolving door just keeps rotating as it screws itself into the ground. I think Jetblue is trying to communicate that their business model will work and everyone will be rewarded if the model is allowed to evolve. There will be bumps and blips along the way, but either you believe in this company or you believe that they are no better than the past history of this business. I for one think they are, and whether or not representation comes on the property...........all the pilot's should do what they can not to get caught up in an adversarial standoff.

imp: ​

 

[Andy]

Did you take your recall yet?

Deferred almost as long as I could. Will be recalled 22 Jan; immediately on mil leave. Will return summer 2009; just in time for contract negotiations.

 

[Andy]

now thats funny!! i've been very impressed with the way ALPA has fought/negotiated all the cutbacks the last 5 years. i.e. loss of retirement, loss of pay, loss of jobs and allowing DELTA PILOTS to have an increase in duty/flight time. very, very impressive. (well worth the 1.95)

its my opinion that when? a union is voted in a B6, it will be in-house. ALPA'S record (of when it really counts) proves that ALPA protection is a fallacy.

"We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has."

I never said ALPA. I said organized representation. One with a CBA.

As for B6 vs the legacies, B6 hasn't started hitting difficult times until now. The legacies have had hard times since 9/11. With the annual increasing debt load at B6 and rapidly increasing interest payments, B6 is just entering the multiple years of rough seas.
When times get really tough, management will make decisions autonomously without a CBA.

As for the Delta flight time issue, I vehemently oppose the increase in duty time. As does DAL ALPA. DAL management went to the FAA; the FAA ruled that it was legal. I don't know what choices DAL ALPA has in the matter; it sounds like there is not much that they can do.

Nice quote. I was never a big fan of Dubo; too much over the top. Whiteford was too far the other way. I have very few complaints about Bathurst; he's not too extreme on either side of the spectrum.

 

[FDJ2]

What do you want them to do, perform an illegal job action and all get fired?

The bottom line is that the JBLU pilots were supporting a change for the worse, the Delta pilots weren't. It was forced upon them and they have no legal recourse in the short run.

Bingo!!!! Jetblue Cubby is too dumb to realize the difference.

 

[FDJ2]

no i am not real stupid or real bitter.

Yes you are.

however, let me get this straight. ALPA goes to the FAA and complains that jetblue conducted a "study" on fatigue in hoping to increase duty time.

Yes

then the FAA allows DELTA to increase THEIR duty/flight time using information from the same individual who conducted the jetblue study. and the only response DALPA says is" we're very upset" AND does nothing to prevent THEIR PILOTS from flying those LONGER DUTY/FLIGHT PERIODS.

That's true. That's the only recourse available. You do understand the limitations of the RLA don't you? Or perhaps I ought to ask if you even know what the RLA is.

Getting back to your original unmiformed statement:

"ALPA brothers at DELTA had no problem increasing their time without a study."

That is obviously BS and DALPA's objection, which you conveniently left out of your cut and paste job, was in the article you quoted.

To sum it up: you are about as smart as your rubber bow tie and two left shoes suggest, Bozo. Now, go curl back up in your corner, and continue chewing on your toenails, because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.