Jetblue pilots begin organization drive...

[JetFumes]

Just speculating. But I would be shocked if private equity weren't talking to Jetblue about doing a deal. Neeleman would not be in favor because he is a control freak, and they could boot the two Dave's out the door and bring in their own mgt team. If the pilot's thought they were getting the shaft with these two, they should be careful what they wish for.

Of course an offer may come down the pike that the BOD would have to seriously look at (ie: Qantas). If they took it, my guess is the company would see a cash infusion of over $1B that would give them the cushion they needed to buy assets in an eventual consolidation.

imp:​

Give me a break. No one is going to buy us .We don't need a cash infusion. Dave and Dave aren't giving themselves a raise. No one is getting furloughed, 190 guys got a raise. 190 CA's, 320 CA's, 320 FO's could use a little more dough. JetBlue may post a profit for the year, and hopefully will do great next year. That will be the time to really start asking for a little more in my opinion. Look around everyone, its not real good anywhere right now save the usual suspects.

 

[ultrarunner]

I would think the better choice would be to go with a representative group that has resources. ALPA, IBT would be your best bets. In house unions have "No" resources in which to fight the coming battles!

Better the "devil" you know(ALPA, IBT) than the one you don't!

Good Luck and get moving!

Yeah, I'm sure swapa and apa are loosing sleep everynight since alpa is not on their properties.

 

[lowecur]

Give me a break. No one is going to buy us Really, and why not? We don't need a cash infusion. Yeah, you do. Jetblue is in hoc up to it's arz, and come the next downturn they may find themselves unable to compete against the legacys, make money and pay the bills. $600M cash was only achieved when they hocked the parts department last month. Dave and Dave aren't giving themselves a raise. Smart. No one is getting furloughed, 190 guys got a raise. 190 CA's, 320 CA's, 320 FO's could use a little more dough. JetBlue may post a profit for the year, and hopefully will do great next year. They should based on projections. That will be the time to really start asking for a little more in my opinion. I agree. Look around everyone, its not real good anywhere right now save the usual suspects.

IMO, Jetblue will not receive a firm offer unless consolidation begins. At that time, the BOD will probably receive an offer they may not be able to refuse. It's a tough world out there, and Jetblue is cheap at this point.

No one figured Qantas would get an offer, but they did. There is so much private equity money right now, it's impossible to say it's not in the cards.

imp:​

 

[007]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

Ahhhh, the good old Skywest mentality......."if I just close my eyes it will go away".

 

[skiandsurf]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise.

You mean, if you had a union those planes would have been parked for a long time until you reached an agreement on acceptable payrates for the E190.

 

[zkmayo]

You mean, if you had a union those planes would have been parked for a long time until you reached an agreement on acceptable payrates for the E190.

or flown by xyz contract carrier

 

[SonicPig]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

I got mine, who cares about those junior pukes?
And yes, I do understand not all Bus Captains think that way.

 

[instructordude]

Have the JB pilots thought about informational picketing at JFK? This can be an effective tool, giving the public knowledge about the current situation.

 

[AA717driver]

I will say that when the 190's were first ordered I said (here and to anyone who would listen) that they'd better go to seat pay or you'd get the haves v. the have-nots.

It may not be exactly what I predicted but it's sure as he!! not smooth sailing between JB and its pilots. TC

P.S.--BTW, when I suggested this would be trouble, I got blasted here.

 

[furloughed dude]

Bluedude,

I think you are right on the mark.

spectre,

D $ D lost my respect/trust when they sent us the new agreement from DHL. These guys need your trust there. They offer promises for the future (what does Dave B. say, hit one out of the ballpark?) so that you will take crappy pay and work rules. Everyone thought we were going to get a raise in 2003, where is it? How about health care costs rising? A crappy PTO system? Seat progression was the way to make a living, but even that has slowed dramatically. I know a lot of guys that have bailed from Jetblue (almost unheard of when I bailed) and the rest of the new guys have apps open with SWA, FDX, and UPS.

The pilots need a common voice at Jetblue and a real negotiated contract, not one that can be changed and sent to you by DHL. Unions didn't kill the legacies, 9/11, recession, SARS, low fare airlines/lower paid companies (like Jetblue), internet pricing, and high fuel prices all contributed. It was a great time to gut contracts and end pensions.

I never had blind allegience to D $ D like a lot of guys had. I don't think they are bad people, but are businessmen that want to make a lot of money. These are the kind of people that you want in charge, but don't confuse them as your buddies... If you want to have absolutely no say in your pay, cost of benefits and work rules, then you are in the right place...

As Al Spain used to say, "Are you smoking some of that funny stuff?"

Union pilots that got raises recently: FDX and UPS.

 

[spinproof]

Yeah, I'm sure swapa and apa are loosing sleep everynight since alpa is not on their properties.

SWA pilots dont seem to need representation. They have a management team that has things humming and is willing to pay for peace. But remember when you're at the top of the pile you make a better target!

In the long run like 'em or not bigger unions have bigger war chest. With 66,000 chipping in 2% they should be!

 

[F18-FDX]

Have the JB pilots thought about informational picketing at JFK? This can be an effective tool, giving the public knowledge about the current situation.

Yes, a very effective tool, however without a union and CBA guys will find themselves getting fired for a "uniform viloation" or some other bogus management excuse with no recourse or legal representation to fight back.

As for the guys (or just that one uninformed guy) whining about dues, I just got mine plus a $hitload more back in the recent contract my union negotiated for me...happy to pay my share. And oh, by the way my healthcare costs didn't go up either because my negotiating committe knew that even a massive pay raise could be wiped out overnight by shell games in other areas....the list could go on. My point? I personnally feel a united group is much more powerful than the sum of its indiviual parts.

Who knows, in the future maybe a united pilot group will be able to negotiate appropriate pay, and an appropriate layover for a transcon instead of management wanting to waiver the 8 in 24. Novel concept, huh?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I got mine, who cares about those junior pukes?
And yes, I do understand not all Bus Captains think that way.

When September and October came around, the entire pilot group got hit with less flying hours; my schedule was only 73 hours in September and 76 in October. So in one month, a junior Captain sitting on reserve got more money than I did. A legacy carrier with a union would have furloughed so that the senior guys would "hold the line" and get their minimum guaranteed hours. It's not a battle of haves and have-nots. We forget sometimes that we're all on the same team. I'm glad the 190 guys got a raise, they deserved it. Would it have been nice if our side of the house got one too. Yes. But in the middle of Return to Profitability (without wage cuts mind you), if it takes a little patience from our pilots who were hired for their outstanding credentials and potential (unless they smoked and mirrored their way in), then let there be some patience, some calm, to this process. David and Dave spoke today in LGB. They admit to the fact that maybe the PCG was a mistake during RTP. But they addressed the low pay scale on the 190 and are looking into the future package for the 320. You have to trust them. If they didn't trust you guys, they could have easily quit and left for something else with their success story. And, yes, it is a success story. Many of you weren't around post 9/11 at this airline. I remember flying with 8 passengers on board. The airline was a mere year and a half old. We were staring at failure of another upstart airline. But we pulled through it, and we did it with the leadership of David and Dave. That's the fact, and many of you also weren't around when A-320 captains made $78/hour and F/Os $43 either. When did our raise come, retroactively? A couple of months after 9/11... right at the time the other airlines started furloughing in droves...

 

[clickclickboom]

When September and October came around, the entire pilot group got hit with less flying hours; my schedule was only 73 hours in September and 76 in October. So in one month, a junior Captain sitting on reserve got more money than I did. A legacy carrier with a union would have furloughed so that the senior guys would "hold the line" and get their minimum guaranteed hours. It's not a battle of haves and have-nots. We forget sometimes that we're all on the same team. I'm glad the 190 guys got a raise, they deserved it. Would it have been nice if our side of the house got one too. Yes. But in the middle of Return to Profitability (without wage cuts mind you), if it takes a little patience from our pilots who were hired for their outstanding credentials and potential (unless they smoked and mirrored their way in), then let there be some patience, some calm, to this process. David and Dave spoke today in LGB. They admit to the fact that maybe the PCG was a mistake during RTP. But they addressed the low pay scale on the 190 and are looking into the future package for the 320. You have to trust them. If they didn't trust you guys, they could have easily quit and left for something else with their success story. And, yes, it is a success story. Many of you weren't around post 9/11 at this airline. I remember flying with 8 passengers on board. The airline was a mere year and a half old. We were staring at failure of another upstart airline. But we pulled through it, and we did it with the leadership of David and Dave. That's the fact, and many of you also weren't around when A-320 captains made $78/hour and F/Os $43 either. When did our raise come, retroactively? A couple of months after 9/11... right at the time the other airlines started furloughing in droves...

It is so easy to get emotional when it comes to ones career. Most importantly our pilots have to make sure that they dont step over $100 bills to pick up pennies.. We have good management and an awesome employee group. We need to remember that JB is a young company that is not immune to making mistakes. If some are so negative that they feel a need to post about a union drive on flight info or rant like Blue Dude then I highly suggest you go find a new job..This is not the perfect company but it sure is a good one with better times to come. I am willing to wait out a raise and work towards an IN HOUSE PILOT GROUP NOT ALPA or some other crackpot scam. Personally I want longevity and stability.. Dropping a 10% raise in the middle of RTP would be completely irresponsible. Wake up guys and use your head befort your spout out and make yourself look stupid ( hint hint blue dude...)

 

[Fins Up]

It is so easy to get emotional when it comes to ones career. Most importantly our pilots have to make sure that they dont step over $100 bills to pick up pennies.. We have good management and an awesome employee group. We need to remember that JB is a young company that is not immune to making mistakes. If some are so negative that they feel a need to post about a union drive on flight info or rant like Blue Dude then I highly suggest you go find a new job..This is not the perfect company but it sure is a good one with better times to come. I am willing to wait out a raise and work towards an IN HOUSE PILOT GROUP NOT ALPA or some other crackpot scam. Personally I want longevity and stability.. Dropping a 10% raise in the middle of RTP would be completely irresponsible. Wake up guys and use your head befort your spout out and make yourself look stupid ( hint hint blue dude...)

I like this post because I also think the fact that we are still a very young airline needs to be considered. I'm sure it's been addressed before but I am curious about the payscales of a lot of the other LCCs, including SWA, when they were six years old.

I'm not letting D&D completely off the hook though. At a minimum it would have been nice to hear something like, "While we aren't give the 320 pilots a raise right now, we are going to address it again in ... one year...whatever." Maybe I missed that. I would LOVE to make this whole pilot/management relationship work without a union. That hope is part of the reason I am here. I realize that just may not happen.