Jetblue pilots begin organization drive...

[pipe]

Does JetBlue care about attracting "quality" pilots going forward? If so, actions need to speak louder than words... I know of two current JetBlue pilots who are seriously considering returning to Netjets - as FOs on Citations.

In the meantime, the "quality" pilots will be looking at SWA, UPS, Fedex and some of the legacies that have or will restart their hiring soon instead of JetBlue. Is that something JetBlue wants or will be proud of going forward? Doubt it. It's all about SIGNAL VALUE and messaging to the pilot community...

Here's a newsflash for ya'. No management higher than the Chief Pilot at any airline gives a rats a$$ about "quality" pilots going forward. Butts in the two front seats at the lowest possible cost. That's it.

The only way to FORCE the upper echelons to view this issue any differently is.........drumroll please.......................COLLECTIVE BARGAINING!!

PIPE

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

This just breaks my heart to see all of this discontent at JBLU.

I never would have seen this coming.

Actually, I think someone actually predicted a lot of this happening, and a bunch of people told him that he was full of it and that this stuff would never happen.

Hmmmmm. Who was that again? Hmmmmm.

JBLU = People Express

5 years to go, if that.

Glug glug glug glug glug glug........

 

[Blue Dude]

Go away Frank.

 

[AAflyer]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

If management is as "labor friendly" as you say then a union would not hurt you at all. Look at SWAPA and SWA. I am not sure ALPA is your answer, but why not start with CAPA and ask for their help in orgainizing an in house union.

www.Capapilots.org



AAflyer

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

SWA makes unions their partners....

 

[lowecur]

Interesting if true. Source?

Just speculating. But I would be shocked if private equity weren't talking to Jetblue about doing a deal. Neeleman would not be in favor because he is a control freak, and they could boot the two Dave's out the door and bring in their own mgt team. If the pilot's thought they were getting the shaft with these two, they should be careful what they wish for.

Of course an offer may come down the pike that the BOD would have to seriously look at (ie: Qantas). If they took it, my guess is the company would see a cash infusion of over $1B that would give them the cushion they needed to buy assets in an eventual consolidation.

imp:​

 

[clickclickboom]

Speak for yourself. You sure don't speak for me, and I'm probably senior to you. All I know is that I've gotten a continuous 15% pay cut over the last five years, we're far past the startup stage, and we have no voice at all as to the content of our own contracts. We have just been kicked in the balls and you want to take a wait and see attitude? What would it take for you to take matters into your own hands? It's already been shown that management CANNOT be relied upon to "do the right thing" with regards to pilot pay. It would not have taken much, even a COLA increase would have been something. Instead we got zip and a shell game changing our benefits around. Wake up!

BTW, your rant vs. Legacy unions is apples and oranges. There was a great deal of fat in those contracts and the industry was in crisis. We on the other hand are the most productive and least paid pilots in the industry. These is no fat to trim and we're due for just a little consideration for the effort, not to mention some mechanism for at least some input to the process. Right now we have squat and it's been shown in convincing fashion that that's no longer an adequate situation.

Now fast forward to the FuC-K-ING joke of a web site called bluepilots.com. That site is run by what 4 complete a$$$ holes??? Amazing they can spew all their crap. They must get together for little brain storming circle jerks on saturday nights in the mens room at the kew club..

ALPA?? Real funny

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Speak for yourself. You sure don't speak for me, and I'm probably senior to you. All I know is that I've gotten a continuous 15% pay cut over the last five years, we're far past the startup stage, and we have no voice at all as to the content of our own contracts. We have just been kicked in the balls and you want to take a wait and see attitude? What would it take for you to take matters into your own hands? It's already been shown that management CANNOT be relied upon to "do the right thing" with regards to pilot pay. It would not have taken much, even a COLA increase would have been something. Instead we got zip and a shell game changing our benefits around. Wake up!

BTW, your rant vs. Legacy unions is apples and oranges. There was a great deal of fat in those contracts and the industry was in crisis. We on the other hand are the most productive and least paid pilots in the industry. These is no fat to trim and we're due for just a little consideration for the effort, not to mention some mechanism for at least some input to the process. Right now we have squat and it's been shown in convincing fashion that that's no longer an adequate situation.

If anyone rants, it's you Blue Dude. I have to keep wiping my face off from your spit. If you hate it so much because you can't afford your standard of living, then please leave and go find work elsewhere that will support your lifestyle of airplanes, Porches, motor boats, summer home in Vermont, Flight Attendant mistresses, and alimony for your previous 5 marriages. You might be senior to me, I don't care... If you're in the upper 200 like I am, just remember, I chose to come here over being hired by several other major airlines in 2001. You probably came here because you were unhireable by those carriers-- now you think your so worthy? I don't think so...

 

[AAflyer]

Just speculating. But I would be shocked if private equity weren't talking to Jetblue about doing a deal. Neeleman would not be in favor because he is a control freak, and they could boot the two Dave's out the door and bring in their own mgt team. If the pilot's thought they were getting the shaft with these two, they should be careful what they wish for.

Of course an offer may come down the pike that the BOD would have to seriously look at (ie: Qantas). If they took it, my guess is the company would see a cash infusion of over $1B that would give them the cushion they needed to buy assets in an eventual consolidation.

imp:​

You may be correct, and if any equity company is looking my guess would be the Texas Pacific Group. They have gone on a spending spree lately.

Qantas, and Sabre Holdings.

AAflyer

 

[Blue Dude]

If anyone rants, it's you Blue Dude. I have to keep wiping my face off from your spit. If you hate it so much because you can't afford your standard of living, then please leave and go find work elsewhere that will support your lifestyle of airplanes, Porches, motor boats, summer home in Vermont, Flight Attendant mistresses, and alimony for your previous 5 marriages. You might be senior to me, I don't care... If you're in the upper 200 like I am, just remember, I chose to come here over being hired by several other major airlines in 2001. You probably came here because you were unhireable by those carriers-- now you think your so worthy? I don't think so...

Wrong on all counts. I am not hate-filled, high maintenance, or unhireable. I am simply fed up with broken promises and the obvious lack of participation in my own future. Remember, this place was supposed to be different. Now it appears to be the same-old same-old and I can't depend on D&D to do the right thing anymore. It's a business decision, nothing more.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

For all the Blue Guys, you should read this post from an Allegiant pilot, he has the right perspective on life... I wish we all could come back to earth like this guy... Posted in the LCC/Nationals...

I'm barely over 2 years, left seat, averaging $9K per month. Some guys w/ similar time get paid more w/ heavy crew ($10K-$11K). Is that enough for you? Not that I really care, as it's more than enough for me. You see, I don't have to completely ruin my personal life to get that. No personal time wasted sitting around airports on 4-hour layovers (been there), living 2/3 of my evenings out of a bag in yet another God-foresaken hotel room (done that), waiting in the snow for another crew van (yep, that too), or sitting between 2 sweaty fat dudes on a nail-biter commute (when I don't get bumped...). There are no stinkin' crash pads ($), spare cars ($), or daily expensive meals. I feel healthy: I can eat right, get to the gym frequently, and most importantly, I'm not chronically fatigued by wrecking my sleep schedule across 4 time zones every week (makes you old fast). The list goes on...

This job is a breath of fresh air in a profession that has become a complete nightmare. I average 12 -15 days a month (more--or less if I choose). Before I forget, here's the best part: I leave for work in the morning, and I'm back home by afternoon, BEFORE my wife gets home from work and the kids get home from school! Wow!...watching the kids grow up along with having the personal time to enjoy my life...what a concept.

Yes, you can make more elsewhere and visit your investments 2.5 days a week (starter castle, Lexus and whatever family/friends you'll have left). Knock yourself out,...you might even gain the distinction of being the richest guy (frog?) in the cemetary. Your standard issue airline ex-wives (3-4 usually) will enjoy your wealth but probably won't visit your grave...nor will the children who never knew you.

As I've stated in the past, it's not for everyone, but ideal for those who have their priorities in line. We come from a wide variety of backgrounds, many of which from majors. They have no intentions of going back...go figure.

If you don't like what Allegiant has to offer, apply elsewhere.

...And good luck chasing that elusive wealth and prosperity.

 

[Spectre]

I told you this a couple years ago, I'm going to say it again. You have no concept of management/labor relations. Speaking about something you don't understand only reveals how little you really know.

When the Furloughees were hired, JetBlue said you are going to like it here so much you will never go back. I guess they were wrong.

If you think a regional guy is trapped at JetBlue and stands a more likely chance of staying, I guess you failed to notice alot of other places are hiring.

Yeah, Delta is accepting pilot applications now. It's so good over there that so many of their pilots deferred recall that they now have to hire off the street. NWA will soon be hiring off the street as well by summer or fall of 2007. Not as many are returning to their former legacy carriers as you may think.

 

[Blue Dude]

Missing the point, Bayou. It's not about the money or the commute. It's about trust. The juice was great when you could trust our leadership and I was one of the biggest JB fans on here. But what has been given can also be taken away, without your consent. This has already begun.

I haven't changed, but JetBlue has, and not for the better. I don't see how any attitude change on my part will affect that.

 

[Spectre]

Missing the point, Bayou. It's not about the money or the commute. It's about trust. The juice was great when you could trust our leadership and I was one of the biggest JB fans on here. But what has been given can also be taken away, without your consent. This has already begun.

I haven't changed, but JetBlue has, and not for the better. I don't see how any attitude change on my part will affect that.

Agreed. Some in the ranks though still have some hope that D&D will get their act together. There definately needs to be more communication much like what happened when the ground workers tried to organize.

My feeling is D&D need to take better care of the number one asset here at JB and that is their people. If we have a business plan in place to purchase new aircraft, install XM radio in A320s, build new hangers, schoolhouse, and terminals, then there should also be some plan in place to fairly compensate your workers.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Lowecure,

Usually I agree with you but I got to tell you on this one you are wrong. Its not about the 320 guys. Its about mgnt telling us they would adjust the rates and do the right thing after the plane had been on property. They did adjust it...basicly 5 bucks on the CA side. As for the E190 fo's, yes, they did get a good bump and the pay came much closer to what it should be but for the rest of the rates, it was a slap in the face. As for the 320 guys, the least they could have done was give them a cola increase...but no, nothing. The health cost here are skyrocketing as well and they refuse to do anything about it because we cant have a seperate health care plan. During the road shows, many questions came about about "do you have the info on this or that?" and the answer was um....um...we dont have that. Its about putting our faith in the PCG only to find out that they did not represent us at all. they undercut the recommendations and had no communication with us about it. When asking one of them in person you got the cold shoulder...from our own. So, I think these reasons are just the tip of the iceberg. Like I said, had nothing to do with the 320 guys not getting anything, that was just part of it. The wonderful communication that we have has slowly erroded and it has become very obvious...to the point that even D Barger pointed it out yesterday. He satated that they need to do a better job communicating with us. I am tried to have faith as long as possible and still think they have it in them to make the proper changes that need to be made, but yesterday was a HUGE step in the wrong direction. They basicly invited ALPA on the property yesterday.

And lastly, I was a regional guy. I flew the 320 for 2 years and now the 190. I can tell you that it does not matter if you are regional, major, cargo, mil....everyone is pissed, especially the 190 guys.

I'm honestly confused.

For the past several years when a poster would suggest that the pilots at JBLU consider unionizing that poster was mercilessly crucified with a tirade of epithets that unions were "old school" thinking and unions destroyed the legacies, JBLU management was awesome and always does the right thing for its employees, "we're a team" here and you just don't "get" the "team atmosphere" here, etc...

Now, apparently "out of the BLU" ( ) all I'm reading is we want a union! What gives? How could things have been so great for 6 years and then turn sour seemingly overnight?

Worse yet, perhaps a few posters over the past years with significant airline experience that quietly said "your time will come" (i.e, for unionization)... actually KNEW what they were talking about after all. It's hard to admit when you've been duped or made a serious miscalculation (in this case about JBLU management being somehow "different and special") and its a great letdown when the honeymoon with management is over. My guess is that very few of your professional pilot colleagues at other carriers are reveling in your current predicament, rather they welcome you to the coalition (for lack of a better term.)

That's my .02 and wish you guys the best (except on that transcon turn thing... I hope that falls on its face!)

BBB

PS