JetBlue Pilots Association Donation

[SNOWBUM]

I was fired from JB in April and was wondering that if and when you guys and gals organize will you will look into past terminations and try to get there jobs back. I put my faith in the JB Values comitee and to say the least, very disapointed. Thank you for your help.

Tom Mistretta

were you the guy in training that got fired because he got into an argument with a gojet pilot during an open house? that is the only one I can think off.

even after we organize we need a cba with system board in place to fight any terminations. also, a termination has to violate the cba in any way for the union to get involved.

I don't see you getting your job back at JB, but , on the bright side, you haven't lost much.

 

[SNOWBUM]

Just wondering....

Why the donations?
I know a few people over there and they (just like people on here) often speak highly about the pay they make as first and 2nd year guys (compared to almost everyone else) with time and a half over 70 hours, picking up extra flying, and profit sharing...

That being said, shouldn't they just pony up the money to start their own union if they are not going to go ALPA?
Hell, if every pilot picked up one day of flying on a day off and gave that pay to the union, you'd be pretty well funded pretty quickly!

just to be clear, no one from JBPA asked for donations from non JB pilots ( but they are welcome ).

HOWEVER, some non JB pilots who actually understand the benefit on a unionized JB and have actually done union work and know how time consuming an expensive it is ( some thing there is no way you have ever done after those comments)
decided to help out the the only way they can, which is with kind words of support and some hard earned $$.

I bet you don't donate money to any charity either.

 

[PsubS]

I don't see you getting your job back at JB, but , on the bright side, you haven't lost much

What a wonderful sentiment. And exactly what is keeping you at JetBlue? Motivation to make things better? Or simply a desire to foist your ********************ty attitude upon the rest of us?

Not everyone is quite on board with the unionization push. Your negative sentiments don't do a lot to persuade us to join your ranks...

 

[IronCityBlue]

also, a termination has to violate the cba in any way for the union to get involved.

Not really. There are many terminations around the industry and there is no way you can cover every circumstance in a CBA, nor would you want to try. Yet the system board of adjustment does have a fairly labor friendly track record of getting pilot's jobs back with full seniority and back pay even in grey area cases. Not all, of course, as some terminations are so cut and dry the company, union and system board all agree they were warranted.

But to say a termination has to violate a specific part of a CBA is incorrect. There is far more to it than that, and the system board of adjustment gets to hear all cases, regardless of what's in the CBA, and then they make their decision.

As for the pilot who said he was terminated, most unions have a probationary period that I assume you would have been in given your longevity. Probationary pilots are typically not entitled to the system board process. You can still file suit for wrongful termination, as always. The act is not always easy to proove, but the dammages usually are.

So if we do vote in a union, I don't see much of an ability to lobby the system board for the reinstatement of what would have been a probationary new hire, retroactively to when the pilot group was non union anyway. That being said, it couldn't hurt to present your case and see what they say.

On the subject, I hope we can avoid a probationary period. I always thought it was rediculous that after all the background checks and hoops we have to jump through that we, as professional pilots, would have to serve any time, much less an entire year. on probation as if we had done something wrong. I don't consider that "paying your dues" I consider it stupid, demeaning and something we need to work to get rid of.

 

[Hutcha]

were you the guy in training that got fired because he got into an argument with a gojet pilot during an open house? that is the only one I can think off.

I can think of two more.

The one that went to training at Virgin (while still employed at JB), got fired there pretty quick and tried to continue here.

And the one that accepted recall at his other company and went on mil leave there while still working here. Fired x 2.

 

[SNOWBUM]

Not really. There are many terminations around the industry and there is no way you can cover every circumstance in a CBA, nor would you want to try. Yet the system board of adjustment does have a fairly labor friendly track record of getting pilot's jobs back with full seniority and back pay even in grey area cases. Not all, of course, as some terminations are so cut and dry the company, union and system board all agree they were warranted.

But to say a termination has to violate a specific part of a CBA is incorrect. There is far more to it than that, and the system board of adjustment gets to hear all cases, regardless of what's in the CBA, and then they make their decision.

As for the pilot who said he was terminated, most unions have a probationary period that I assume you would have been in given your longevity. Probationary pilots are typically not entitled to the system board process. You can still file suit for wrongful termination, as always. The act is not always easy to proove, but the dammages usually are.

So if we do vote in a union, I don't see much of an ability to lobby the system board for the reinstatement of what would have been a probationary new hire, retroactively to when the pilot group was non union anyway. That being said, it couldn't hurt to present your case and see what they say.

On the subject, I hope we can avoid a probationary period. I always thought it was rediculous that after all the background checks and hoops we have to jump through that we, as professional pilots, would have to serve any time, much less an entire year. on probation as if we had done something wrong. I don't consider that "paying your dues" I consider it stupid, demeaning and something we need to work to get rid of.

you are correct on all counts.

I'm also opposed to provation,. I would like to be able to take a look at those terminated without just cause and get them back, but I don't want to get his hopes up. It might be easier and faster for him to go the route of the traditional lawyer lawsuit.

 

[SNOWBUM]

What a wonderful sentiment. And exactly what is keeping you at JetBlue? Motivation to make things better? Or simply a desire to foist your ********************ty attitude upon the rest of us?

Not everyone is quite on board with the unionization push. Your negative sentiments don't do a lot to persuade us to join your ranks...

My desire is to make things better for everyone at JB and do my part to bring the industry QOL, benefits and wages up.

I don't have a ********************ty attitude, just simply pointing put that at this time JB is a stepping stone airline, and the only things that keeps most 190 pilots and 320 FO's here is the fact they haven/'t been call by the other airlines they have applications at. the fact that we lost 10% of our workforce last year and the fact that we would have lost more if there was more hiring, less talk of consolidation and our guys would have been called should pint this out clearly.

how many guys do you know with a blue dart that they can't give away? I know quite a few. How many guys do you know at the regionals who don't even want to apply ( I still think is a mistake and JB is better than a regional). I know a lot.

If you are on the left seat of the 320 you might choose to close your eyes and ignore the issues our fellow crew members have, I choose not to.

 

[motch]

I bet you don't donate money to any charity either

Ok, pay up.

There are a few pilots at JB who know me from my TSA days and can attest to the fact that I gave monies to the help out fellow TSA pilots in need.

I also donate to an orphanage in Tilsit, Russia. My dad's old town (when it was still part of Germany!). Believe in helping out people who are down on their luck and need some help.

Brest cancer walk that a TSA pilot does every year... a constant contributator (sp!) Love the hooters!.
Point is.. you don't know me.

As far as this helping out the rest of the industry.. that point can be taken two ways.
Yes, having JB pilots unionize and strive for higher wages and better work rules does push the industry in the right direction. But at the same time, even if they don't, my company and union will probably place more weight behind what AA and APA pilot do when comparing payscales.

And second, it's easy to say that some non JB pilots who actually understand the benefit on a unionized JB. We all do.. but if being union was so important, why did you go to work for a non union carrier?

Fact is, most pilots are Type A people.. and they would like the most rewards with the least amount of effort. Human nature. JB pilots are no different than most airline pilots (except for G0J3T) and I wish them well in their career. Union or non union.

But I was purely asking the question, why the donations and not loans?

Here's an idea.. how about selling bonds for the union effort, if cash is such a problem. That way peolpe get a return for their effort.

 

[motch]

On the subject, I hope we can avoid a probationary period. I always thought it was rediculous that after all the background checks and hoops we have to jump through that we, as professional pilots, would have to serve any time, much less an entire year. on probation as if we had done something wrong.

Good point. It still bothers me that if a pilot leaves a regional where he was ALPA, he goes back to being a probationary pilot with ALPA at his new airline (if they are ALPA!)

Unfortunately... the pilot union in the US is somewhat weak when it comes to unity and intergrity (in my opinion). There are afew G0J3T pilots working at some union and non union carriers as we speak. If we were truly a national union, that probably wouldn't happen.

But then again, this is life and I guess we have to deal with it. Kinda like Vote 08. Not many good candidates out there to get into office and fix the mess we're in right now.
Too bad we can't dig up Ronald Reagan and get him going again!

 

[PsubS]

don't have a ********************ty attitude, just simply pointing put that at this time JB is a stepping stone airline, and the only things that keeps most 190 pilots and 320 FO's here is the fact they haven/'t been call by the other airlines they have applications at. the fact that we lost 10% of our workforce last year and the fact that we would have lost more if there was more hiring, less talk of consolidation and our guys would have been called should pint this out clearly.

I don't see you getting your job back at JB, but , on the bright side, you haven't lost much.

I don't question your motivation...I really don't. There are changes needed to keep folks on the property.

But to say that "you haven't lost much" is a bit extreme, don't you think? Despite the attrition, JB is still a very, very good airline. Your heart may be in the right place, but your overall perception of how JetBlue stacks up with the rest of the industry is off. As far as your attitude is concerned, well, I stick to my first judgement.

I haven't chosen sides, frankly. But your written words speak volumes of the mindset of those who would advocate an adversarial relationship, thus losing much of what we have simply to gain representation.

 

[SNOWBUM]

I don't question your motivation...I really don't. There are changes needed to keep folks on the property.


I haven't chosen sides, frankly. But your written words speak volumes of the mindset of those who would advocate an adversarial relationship, thus losing much of what we have simply to gain representation.

no adversarial attitude at all. I don't know any JBPA supporter who wants that. everyone would like to see a good working relationship like SWPA. negotiations will be tough, but in the end we all can leave the table feeling we won something. It is up to the company to be adversarial. JBPA is not adversarial at all, we just pointed out the things that need to be change . I don't think that is adversarial.
Yes, I agree maybe I shouldn't have said he didn't miss much, as I believe JB is not a bad place but there is a lot of room for improvement. Management knows that and they haven't done anything about it. we want to make sure it does happen. again that is not being adversarial , just calling it like it is.

 

[Lear70]

I haven't chosen sides, frankly. But your written words speak volumes of the mindset of those who would advocate an adversarial relationship, thus losing much of what we have simply to gain representation.

An adversarial relationship with whom? The guy who lost his job or management?

Unionization does NOT automatically ENSURE an adversarial relationship. Southwest has accomplished this quite nicely with spelled out rules, mutually-agreed raises making them the highest-paid narrowbody pilots on the planet (granted in Legacy concessionary times, but still no small feat), while still retaining the ability to work WITH the company.

Name me ONE other airline where the PILOTS are allowed to negotiate DIRECTLY with the hotels to pick hotels, rates, and discounts in the restaurants and bars...

It can be done. Not saying it's easy or a "done deal", but it can.

FlyingTom, I know how you feel. I was termed from airTran last September without grounds, have already won some of my lawsuits, have others (the big $$$ ones) pending.

I do have to say one thing: it's NEVER "a small loss" to be terminated. That stays on your record FOREVER... unless you are successful in SUING for its removal and the company does so in a settlement. It's a terrible thing to be qualified enough to get calls from the Legacy carriers, just to be turned down because you have a termination on your record.

It ruins careers, and if something can be done to get him his job back (I don't know the details) or at least get his termination turned into a resignation with nothing adverse on his record, then I sincerely hope the JBPA helps as much as they can.

 

[SNOWBUM]

motch, I think is great what you do for charity.

the point of the posting was that some JB pilots decided JB needed a union and decided to start the effort, and some other JB pilots decided to help out with money and time. then some non JB pilots decided to send some money because they wanted to help the JB unionization effort, but JBPA did not asked them ( again we do appreciate the support), they did it our of their own personal belief that JBPA will be good for JB,the industry and them.

I still can't understand your point about a loan or a bond when no one from JBPA has asked anyone other than JB pilots for donations. the JB pilots will get more than the interest on a bond when JBPA becomes the bargaining body of JB and negotiates a better contract.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

no adversarial attitude at all. I don't know any JBPA supporter who wants that. everyone would like to see a good working relationship like SWPA. negotiations will be tough, but in the end we all can leave the table feeling we won something. It is up to the company to be adversarial. JBPA is not adversarial at all, we just pointed out the things that need to be change . I don't think that is adversarial.
Yes, I agree maybe I shouldn't have said he didn't miss much, as I believe JB is not a bad place but there is a lot of room for improvement. Management knows that and they haven't done anything about it. we want to make sure it does happen. again that is not being adversarial , just calling it like it is.

When we run out of cash in the next few quarters, none of this will matter.

 

[zkmayo]

I was fired from JB in April and was wondering that if and when you guys and gals organize will you will look into past terminations and try to get there jobs back. I put my faith in the JB Values comitee and to say the least, very disapointed. Thank you for your help.

Tom Mistretta

If you were the one who got canned for yelling at newhire candidates at a job fair while wearing a company id, I say you firing is more than justified.