Jetblue Pilot Strength and Unionizing

[GE CF34-3B1]

I'm just throwing this thought out there- Why don't you guys get together and form a union (either join with ALPA or in-house)?

The Railway Labor act prohibits a company from interfering with the organization and forming of a labor union.

To be honest, your 100-seat jet rates are downright disgusting. Absolutely disgusting and embarrassing for the industry.

 

[jaxgus]

Keep Your Opinion to Yourself

I'm just throwing this thought out there- Why don't you guys get together and form a union (either join with ALPA or in-house)?

The Railway Labor act prohibits a company from interfering with the organization and forming of a labor union.

To be honest, your 100-seat jet rates are downright disgusting. Absolutely disgusting and embarrassing for the industry.

If you want to start a union at your place of work, feel free. This is my company, not yours, and it is our decision so you should keep your mouth shut because you don't know what life is like working daily at JetBlue. Yes, I'm disappointed with the initial E190 rates, but I just finished a trip and it is amazing that all of us still have smiles on. I have faith in MY leadership and I know in the end the majority of the pilots will still be drinking Kool-Aid.

A union is not the answer to the E190 pay scale, hoenst communication between fellow Crewmembers. Remember, we at JetBlue refer to all employees as Crewmembers and this includes the folks in upper leadership. I have a good feeling upper leadership understands the disappointment and frustration we have over the E190 rates. I also appreciate we are publishing rates for an aircraft that has not generated a nickle. Currently, we face fierce competition in the NYC area and fares are being cut to the minimum by the legacy carriers. I want my company to continue to possess its cost advantage so we can continue fairly aggressive growth plans.

I'd like to point out that JetBlue gave its pilots a raise shortly after 9/11, how many other 121 operators did this? This is less than three years ago and typically contracts don't get renegotiated at major airlines this quickly. Our current contract offer provides for a modest raise of the A320 rates at the 6 year point, which also affect the E190 since it is based on a percentage of A320 rates. Hence, we really aren't due a pay raise at this point even though I would love to see one.

We have been very successful and leadership hinted pre-9/11 they'd like to base our pay rates on SWA, but now is not the time to get greedy and raise our pay scales to the point where we dramatically increase our CASM. I don't have the numbers to support the CASM increase, but we need to stay cost competetive. I want to see what the affect on CASM is before I start jumping up and down on David's desk saying, "Show me the money!!!" I personally would rather see my company in business 27 years from now, no I'm not 33, and receive modest pay increases out pacing inflation as opposed to having industry leading pay rates and sitting in Chap 11.

Bottom-line, the decision to unionize at JetBlue belongs to the Crewmembers at JetBlue and inputs like yours are not productive. We have enough pilots who were members of ALPA, APA, etc. to advise us on the pros and cons of inviting another beauracracy into our lives. If you don't like the fact we don't have a union, don't apply to work here and if you have, please delete your application.

 

[skirt]

I'm just throwing this thought out there- Why don't you guys get together and form a union (either join with ALPA or in-house)?

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Your suggestion is way too much of an over reaction for the current situation. Just because somebody lights a match doesn't mean you have to call out an entire fire department to put it out.

Skirt

 

[datafox]

If you want to start a union at your place of work, feel free. This is my company, not yours, and it is our decision so you should keep your mouth shut because you don't know what life is like working daily at JetBlue...

A union is not the answer to the E190 pay scale, hoenst communication between fellow Crewmembers. Remember, we at JetBlue refer to all employees as Crewmembers and this includes the folks in upper leadership. I have a good feeling upper leadership understands the disappointment and frustration we have over the E190 rates....

...We have been very successful and leadership hinted pre-9/11 they'd like to base our pay rates on SWA, but now is not the time to get greedy and raise our pay scales to the point where we dramatically increase our CASM...

So, the truth comes out!

While it is true that it is up to JetBlue pilots whether they want to organize, the fact of the matter is we don't live in a bubble and whatever payscales are in place at JetBlue indirectly effects every other pilot in the industry. Whether we are ALPA or not, we are all brothers, we are all pilots.

I think your corporate culture at JetBlue is very nice, referring to everyone as Crewmembers. However, the new EMB190 payscale means that some Crewmembers will be getting a lot more money than other Crewmembers who are doing the same job. Also, there are some executive "Crewmembers" who are probably getting paid a lot more than pilot "Crewmembers".

Nobody is asking you guys to "get greedy", so I'm not sure where you got that. Even the threat of the union would probably force your management to raise your EMB190 rates to at least an industry average rate (DC9, 717, etc.).

JetBlue is probably the best situated airline right now. You guys are profitable, growing and sitting on a lot of cash (SWA is up there too). I don't want you guys to get greedy, but I would like for you to show some teeth and get a payscale that is decent since your company has been doing so well.

While it is up to you and other JetBlue pilots to decide what to do, just remember that an industry bottom payscale at a profitable airline is not going to be looked at favorably by most...if you don't fight it there is a good chance that such a payscale will effect the entire industry (regional jet and small narrow body operators).

Please, for the sake of the industry ask for what you deserve...

Datafox

 

[B6Busdriver]

How dare one criticize the ALPA. They've done great things, just look at the U contract. Looks like UAL is going to take it in the shorts too. At least they have integrity though, they gladly welcomed back the scabs at CAL. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the money. ALPA is Washington D.C. politics on a micro scale.

 

[N2264J]

How dare one criticize the ALPA. They've done great things, just look at the U contract. Looks like UAL is going to take it in the shorts too. At least they have integrity though, they gladly welcomed back the scabs at CAL. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the money. ALPA is Washington D.C. politics on a micro scale.

He's right. It was the ALPA engineered alter ego airlines at US Airways (Jets for Jobs) that has exacerbated this downward slide. Now, mainline furloughees are Captains in 100 seat planes for less than $60 per hour while ALPA members bid against each other for growth. jetBlue management is just capitalizing on and exploiting ALPA's corruption and following their lead.

ALPA has gone 'round the bend and its "leadership" ought to be summarily recalled but the mainline groupthink is still: "the negotiating capital used to achieve scope restricting RJs is well spent and is protecting my job." Nevermind that scope is restricting the procurement of airliners the company needs to remain competitive while keeping cockpit seats off the property.

ALPA has been down this road before fighting the two man cockpit. They based their thought process on safety and an ALPA flight engineer sat in the jumpseat on the 737. Embarrassing. That was one of the reasons American left the union. ALPA doesn't seem to adjust well to changes in technology like the two man flight deck or the 50 seat jet. Really a sad day for unionism - again.

 

[Skygod]

>> To be honest, your 100-seat jet rates are downright disgusting. Absolutely disgusting and embarrassing for the industry.


Rather than looking at hourly pay rates -- that can change in time -- let's look at total compensation. How many ALPA carriers pay $70/hr IN THE FIRST YEAR? How many ALPA carriers have EMB's and Airbus's flying under the same working conditions and senority list and whatnot?

There are challanges. It's an imperfect world. We are human. But the answer to YOUR problems is not ME sending 1.9% of my pay to ALPA.

If WE want a union, we'll form one. There is plenty of experience here to do that. If WE want to work through the 1,001 details of starting a new airline another way, I think that's our choice.

 

[Publishers]

Skygod

You do not understand, they want everyone to play the same game. They cannot stand it if some company goes off and does its own thing. This is why everyone was so resentful of SWA. They did their own model, their own way, were happy with the situation, and Herb frankly did not care what the other guys thought.

The greatest contracts in the world are worthless if not sustainable by the company.

 

[FLB717]

Wow, I've never seen the B6 crew so ruffled! But before we compair B6 to SWA in the terms of a Union, recall if you will that SWA HAS a Union, a very good one I might add. So lets get some SWAPA guys in here to let us know the history of why SWAPA was formed at a company who is famous for loving it's employee's. Then we could compair the oranges to blue berries.

 

[datafox]

Wow, I've never seen the B6 crew so ruffled! But before we compair B6 to SWA in the terms of a Union, recall if you will that SWA HAS a Union, a very good one I might add. So lets get some SWAPA guys in here to let us know the history of why SWAPA was formed at a company who is famous for loving it's employee's. Then we could compair the oranges to blue berries.

You are absolutely right. Both SWA and AirTran are profitable LCCs and both have their own in house union...and both have better payscales than JetBlue (AAI B717 vs. JBLU EMB190).

JetBlue pilots above brought up ALPA. This isn't about ALPA at all...this is about how JetBlue pilots will react to this payscale. I work for an ALPA carrier and I don't like ALPA very much. Recently I believe they have done more damage to the industry than good, but that is a topic for another discussion.

This is about JetBlue pilots, who currently have no collective bargaining rights...this is about JetBlue pilots...a good group of guys who fly for a profitable company yet their executive "Crewmembers" just gave them the lowest payscale in the industry.

So, what you "Blue" boys gonna do?