jetblue or US Airways?

[Metrojet]

So much love/hate for both.....SO, if given the choice:

Jetblue or US Airways?

Discuss....

(can't say neither, has to be one)

Nobody has discussed it yet - but go with the one company with a big base in the city you want to live in - commuting sucks whether your on reserve or a block-holder - your quality of life will be extremely better if you don't have to get on an airplane to go to work or go home!


Metrojet (been commuting the whole time!)

 

[reepicheep]

Neither company is remotely high cost.

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2011/bts055_11/html/bts055_11.html

Airways has the highest CASM of all network & LCC's.
jetBlues's costs are approx. 40% lower.

 

[n757st]

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2011/bts055_11/html/bts055_11.html

Airways has the highest CASM of all network & LCC's.
jetBlues's costs are approx. 40% lower.

I'd imagine most of that is from regional flying etc. otherwise frontier wouldn't have costs of 16 cents.

 

[JetMonkey]

Part of the spin machine from the West......

Was bored tonight, so looked at the list of over 60 guys for bidding on the East side for the Month of Jan.

405 Capts.

80 F/Os on 330 or 75/767
61 F/Os on rest of fleet


Hmmm so I guess in the next 5 years, 80+61>405 ?!?!?!?

Not to mention, those capts going out, will result in f/o's moving over, as well as those f/o's on the wide bodies going out, moving quite a few up onto the wide bodies. If deliveries actually come, and depending on what they do with the remaining 75/767's, could be interesting...

Wow. 546 east guys are already over 60. That's about 20% of their list. BTW, one more year from today for that gravy train ride.

 

[Lake Alice]

Who has the best chance of being involved in a merger or acquisition? Which pilot group will have a say in their future? As a Jetblue pilot you have no say. The Jetblue pilot group will be forced to rely on years and years of self paid lawsuits to fight it's seniority integration. USair pilots, despite past legal battles, still have a say in their future.

The best case scenario Jetblue pilots can hope for is a staple. Regardless of what our PEA says you have to fight these battles in court. We don't have the resources to do so. USair pilots do.

 

[CapnVegetto]

US Air is a great place to get on right now. Tons of upcoming retirements.

JB is a decent place to work, will get better with a union. There is a merger/acquisition in the future, don't believe the organic growth BS. It's coming, just a question of who and when.

Go to the first place that hires you, but undoubtably a better future at USAir simply due to the retirement situation.

 

[aeolian]

if you are a positive person...airways might work. but you'll need the attitude to keep yourself sane. there are so many morons who blame everybody else (alpa, parker, bk judge, leonidas, wake, silver) for a situation created by their own leadership (davis, freshwater, crocker, brookman, ciabitonni, garbett, rowe, mowrey, and a half dozen others) and line pilot personal inattention. line guys have not paid enough attention there for YEARS...just sooo easy to go with they guy who espouses the simple solution... one that suits their mindset..facts be dammed...complexities are someone else's worry..(never really noticing that it's not worked out so well)

if you need the culture to keep you up then JB has it over US. JB will grow a bit every year... US will attrit you up the list at breakneck speed starting in three or four years..absent a merger...all bets off there... as seen with the us/aw integration attrition may or may not count for much

 

[My Man SMITH!]

Both are better than staying at a regional. I don't think either of these companies will be in their present form in a few years. I would take either but ultimately go with the one that would eliminate a commute. Good luck.

 

[johnsonrod]

Maybe this has already been discussed, but rumor has it that US Airways has been picking up a lot of PDT pilots lately? True? Big number or small number of pilots?

I guess with the reductions in LGA flying and questions about PDT's role at US Airways in the future, the more senior PDT pilots are starting to imagine life outside the Dash...

What other regionals are becoming popular sources of new USAirways pilots?

 

[outerlimits]

What are the requirements of both to get on ?

 

[nordo_2]

Not to mention JB has lasted a lot longer than PE and is still making money.

PS, 2002 called and wants its PeoplExpress analogy back.

More like 1999.

 

[CapnVegetto]

What are the requirements of both to get on ?

Same as anywhere. Minimums + knowing the right people.

 

[scrub]

More like 1999.

Uh try 1987!

 

[Turtle21]

Actually most of the retirements at Airways are F.O.'s.

Just Saying.

What? Do you think your readers are idiots?

Any imbecile knows that 100% of East retirements in the next 20 years are currently sitting in PHL at the Lagoon Hotel, on short call reserve as E190 FOs.

i.e. They may as well all be junior to a new hire so there is absolutely no reason to take retirements into account.

<sarcasm>

 

[Hpilot]

I'd definitely go for US over JetBlue. Both would be toward the bottom of my list though. I had several thousand hrs 121 and a four year, ended up at AWA, because they were the first to call. Choices now would be:
1) Alaska*
2) Southwest
3) Delta

*Like the airline, but with little growth and only a few retirements a year, it'll be a real slow climb up the ladder.

 

[Green]

Apply to Emirates instead. Better pay, lifestyle, and cabin crew

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Thanks to another poster I was able to copy these numbers from another thread. Something to take into consideration but buyer beware when coming to US Airways. I left JetBlue to come here in 2007. Enjoyed the people and the flying at JetBlue but I needed the movement that Airways was offering at the time. Not saying I am over the hill but at the time I left the average age of the JetBlue seniority list did not offer much hope of upward movement for me. Also wanted to ditch the commute so Airways had that going for it as well. Of course the age 65 thing happened a few days into new hire training and I ended up with a 18 month vacation. The last 5 years have been a test to say the least. Like another poster said, " If you need the positive atmosphere at work everyday then JetBlue but if you can ignore the toxic culture that pervades everything then US Air for the movement is the way to go " Hopefully the mood will change as the geezer meter start's to wind down and EVERYONE that is left will start to enjoy the job a bit more. You are sort of going all in if you bet on US Air vrs. slow and steady at JetBlue. You make your choice then move on and don't look back. Like many have said. You will know how good a choice it was when you hit 65.

JetBlue Retirement Numbers:

2012-7 / 2013-2 / 2014-3 / 2015-5 / 2016-10 / 2017-13 / 2018-18
2019-12 / 2020-27 / 2021-34 / 2022-38 / 2023-46 / 2024-71 / 2025-70
2026-60 / 2027-79 / 2028-101 / 2029-116 / 2030-122 / 2031-113
2032-129 / 2033-158 / 2034-125 / 2035-143 / 2036-107 / 2037-99
2038-89 / 2039-78 / 2040-61 / 2041-77 / 2042-39 / 2043-36 / 2044-25
2045-30

I will dig up my old US Airways retirement numbers and post them for comparison. I know from experience that it is a tough call.
Good Luck
__________________

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Cumulative Age 65 Retirements of East and West Combined
2012-11 / 2013-192 / 2014-255 / 2015-276 / 2016-273 / 2017-304
2018-311 / 2019-333 / 2020-310 / 2021-314 / 2022-269 / 2023-302
2024-241 / 2025-261 / 2026-210 / 2027-203 / 2028-157 / 2029-148
2030-132
The total number of retirements between 2012 and 2030 = 4502
The total number of pilots at the combined airline is approx. 5200 pilots so as you can see there is going to be a huge amount of movement.
Of course all this math will be out the window when/if a merger comes our way so once again " Buyer Beware "
My crystal ball has been on MEL for quite a while.

 

[145 Lawndart]

Thanks to another poster I was able to copy these numbers from another thread. Something to take into consideration but buyer beware when coming to US Airways. I left JetBlue to come here in 2007. Enjoyed the people and the flying at JetBlue but I needed the movement that Airways was offering at the time. Not saying I am over the hill but at the time I left the average age of the JetBlue seniority list did not offer much hope of upward movement for me. Also wanted to ditch the commute so Airways had that going for it as well. Of course the age 65 thing happened a few days into new hire training and I ended up with a 18 month vacation. The last 5 years have been a test to say the least. Like another poster said, " If you need the positive atmosphere at work everyday then JetBlue but if you can ignore the toxic culture that pervades everything then US Air for the movement is the way to go " Hopefully the mood will change as the geezer meter start's to wind down and EVERYONE that is left will start to enjoy the job a bit more. You are sort of going all in if you bet on US Air vrs. slow and steady at JetBlue. You make your choice then move on and don't look back. Like many have said. You will know how good a choice it was when you hit 65.

JetBlue Retirement Numbers:

2012-7 / 2013-2 / 2014-3 / 2015-5 / 2016-10 / 2017-13 / 2018-18
2019-12 / 2020-27 / 2021-34 / 2022-38 / 2023-46 / 2024-71 / 2025-70
2026-60 / 2027-79 / 2028-101 / 2029-116 / 2030-122 / 2031-113
2032-129 / 2033-158 / 2034-125 / 2035-143 / 2036-107 / 2037-99
2038-89 / 2039-78 / 2040-61 / 2041-77 / 2042-39 / 2043-36 / 2044-25
2045-30

I will dig up my old US Airways retirement numbers and post them for comparison. I know from experience that it is a tough call.
Good Luck
__________________

Jetblue does not release retirement numbers. So unless the poster on the other thread divulges a credible source I would say those numbers are bogus.

 

[banger]

Id have to agree those numbers are bogus. Showing only 2 retirees in 2013? I personally know more.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Jetblue does not release retirement numbers. So unless the poster on the other thread divulges a credible source I would say those numbers are bogus.

I guess I should have put a disclaimer that I can not verify the JetBlue numbers: That said I did work there and can verify that compared to most other seniority list and especially the US Airways seniority list, JetBlue has a relatively young pilot group and movement will be partly impacted by slower movement off the top of the list. I will let the other poster attest to the validity of the numbers for JetBlue but the US Airways are right off of the seniority list which did show the DOB of each employees.

 

[labbats]

Wow. Just looked up USAir pay rates. I had no idea they were that bad.

2nd year FO on the 737 is $57/hr. On the 757 it's $66/hr.

3rd year FO on the 737 is $62/hr. On the 757 it's $72. A330 is $79.uke:

 

[Hpilot]

Holy crap! Whatever you do, don't let OYS see this. If he sees anyone, anywhere, from any airline, EVER rank Southwest ahead of Delta on anything, even if referring to personal preference, we'll have to endure a coupla' dozen posts about GK, culture and worst of all, Lubbock. And I don't think ANYONE wants that....

Be a little more careful next time, would you?

Bubba

Sorry, it was a momentary slip. Seriously, I told AWA in the interview I had an app in at Alaska and they still hired me. I barely sat down in the chair outside the interview room and they called me back in to say I was hired. If I'd known we were going to merge with US, I would have said, "no thankyou." Guess hindsight is always 20/20. Enjoy your job you lucky bugger.

 

[thruthemurk]

This is the first time I have ever seen retirement projections at Jetblue. I have no idea of the source - but they have the ring of believability to me. I have flown on both fleets over the last 8 years and 3 bases and the profile seems to fit in a general sense. There is no way of knowing, but they are in the realm of reality.

It is outrageous (to me) that Jetblue continues to refuse to release basic retirement dates for their pilots. At least one pilot tried to generate a list on a VOLUNTARY basis a few years ago and was blocked by the blue borg. Are you kidding me? A perfect glimpse into the big brother environment. What American is not allowed to make basic projections about their career progression - particularly pilots in a seniority model.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

LOL, Blue Borg !! That's a new one to me. Mind if I assimilate it ?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Blue Borg = Bobs, IPJB..etc...

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Blue Borg = Bobs, IPJB..etc...

Ohh, I have seen the term Bobs around on this board but all that came after my time at JB

 

[banger]

This is the first time I have ever seen retirement projections at Jetblue. I have no idea of the source - but they have the ring of believability to me. I have flown on both fleets over the last 8 years and 3 bases and the profile seems to fit in a general sense. There is no way of knowing, but they are in the realm of reality.

It is outrageous (to me) that Jetblue continues to refuse to release basic retirement dates for their pilots. At least one pilot tried to generate a list on a VOLUNTARY basis a few years ago and was blocked by the blue borg. Are you kidding me? A perfect glimpse into the big brother environment. What American is not allowed to make basic projections about their career progression - particularly pilots in a seniority model.

Really? Just 2 retirees in 2013 and only 3 in 2014 Have the ring of believability to you? Come on! of over 2000pilots and only 2 guys in 2013 reaching age 65?