JetBlue or Continental?

[Bluetoo]

Looks like I might have a choice between JetBlue and Continental. I have less than 10 years to age 60. Can anyone offer insight into pros/cons between the two?

 

[Palomino]

no int'l possibilities with JetBlue...unless you've been there/done that

both have fairly quick upgrades

i'll leave the rest to those who actually work there

 

[Daddy]

If CAL merges with another ALPA carrier you could get screwed....

 

[RichardFitzwell]

If CAL merges with another ALPA carrier you could get screwed....

If jetBlue merges with an ALPA carrier you WILL get screwed.

 

[Mr Hat]

If you only have 10 years.....Easy. Jetblue. By year 3 you should be an A320 Captain making a good amount of bank. Upgrade at CAL will take closer to 5-6 years. Of course if you have no intention of upgrading and just want good QOL maybe the odds are about even. Both are great companies, if you have a choice I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

[FLY CONTINENTAL]

Upgrade at CAL could be 4 years, based on todays numbers with retirements. Approx. 50% retires in the next 6-8 years. Go where you would be most happy.

Continental was supposed to merge with NWA about 6 years ago, then Delta... Jetblue could be bought by United. Speculation...can have you miss some great opportunities in life. Go where you would have the most fun.

 

[Mamma]

I don't think JetBlue is going to get "purchased" anytime soon.

 

[Bluetoo]

Thanks for the inputs. Any more thoughts from other folks currently working at CAL or JetBlue (or someone who has looked hard at both) would be appreciated.

I also doubt that JetBlue will be bought by another carrier anytime soon.

 

[miles otoole]

If you only have 10 years.....Easy. Jetblue. By year 3 you should be an A320 Captain making a good amount of bank.

"Should" being the operative word.

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

If you only have 10 years.....Easy. Jetblue. By year 3 you should be an A320 Captain making a good amount of bank. Upgrade at CAL will take closer to 5-6 years. Of course if you have no intention of upgrading and just want good QOL maybe the odds are about even. Both are great companies, if you have a choice I don't think you can go wrong with either.

I don't think a new hire today will upgrade on the bus in 3 years. With over 1300 total pilots on board already it'll take 4 plus years minimum. Pilots hired around fall of 2004 with seniority number between the high 800s to low 900s are looking at another 18-20 months until upgrade on the bus; that would make it around 3 years for them. You'll be in the high 1300s, low 1400 if you got on today. Best case scenario with 7.3 crew per plane if you're number 1300 you'll need about 178 total buses to hold captain. There are about 90 buses on the property so do the math. About 1 new bus arrives every 3 weeks, that's about 18 new busses per year.

The 140 or so bus f/os who are upgrading on the 190 will eventually transition back to the bus once their 2 year lock is up.

 

[Palomino]

another thing to consider is attrition. CAL definitely has the edge there with a large number of pilots retiring in the next 10 years. i forget the numbers exactly, but they are posted fairly often on here.

i don't believe JetBlue has near the amount of retirees as CAL does.

either way, it's a nice dilemna to have.

 

[(o) (o)]

no int'l possibilities with JetBlue...unless you've been there/done that

I'm sorry, but is international flying a criteria to accept a job?

What is the big deal with flying international? Long flights, can't understand ATC, strange food, jet lag, gone all the time...what's so great?

 

[Uppercrust]

If you want to go to a Major, go to Continental.
If you want to go to a National, go to Jetblue.

 

[boeing747-800]

You mean

If you want to go to a major go to CAL
If you want to go to a LCC go to JBLU

 

[ACWild]

There's lots of appeal to flying overseas. Generally, you do one leg and you're off to the layover as opposed to doing five or six legs a day. Longer legs equals more efficient use of your time money-wise. It also times you out faster so you can get a decent amount of days off. The layovers can be a lot of fun too. For instance, a Rome layover sure beats the heck out of Buffalo, unless that's your thing. It's sure the heck a lot more interesting flying than domestic.
International isn't for everyone, but if you're into it at a decent company, it's a good deal. Tax time is coming up too, so you can get some good tax credits for overseas time.
I loved doing overseas flying. Sure, long deadheads are brutal, but I generally didn't bid trips with them. Now I'm back doing domestic and it seems like work.

 

[ACWild]

Oh yeah, to answer your question, I had an opportunity to interview at JB right around the time of my CAL interview. Both companies are very appealing to me, so it was a tough decision, but I chose CAL because I wanted to have a choice to do long-haul if I wanted, the B-fund pension, (which goes to an account in my name from day one), and most importantly, because EWR is a 37 mile drive while JFK is 62 miles with a huge toll.
I believe that you'll do well no matter who you choose. Good luck!

 

[FurloughedTwice]

What is the big deal with flying international? Long flights, can't understand ATC, strange food, jet lag, gone all the time...what's so great?

International flying isn't for everyone but I think you are trying to compare Polar or Atlas to CAL and that's not the case. Unless JetBlue has turns and you are home every night I think it's safe to say you are home more with CAL international flying. Line holders average between 16-19 days off a month.

 

[propjob27]

Why are 'home every night' and 'airline pilot' being used in the same sentence?? That's not in the job description. Go work at a bank.

This career is supposed to be about seeing the world, having someone else make the travel and lodging arrangements, and getting paid to do it.

Unfortunately, my last point runs into some trouble at CAL. The international route stucture and layovers are awesome, but they pay definately needs some work. Of course, when you look at JetBlue's EMB rates...

There really is no easy choice here. Be thankful you are fortunate to have the choice in the 1st place. Make a decison. Live with it, stop reading this forum, and do not look back. Ever.

 

[(o) (o)]

This career is supposed to be about seeing the world.

Propjob,

Kuwait looked pretty lame after the 20th trip.

 

[Bluetoo]

The chance to fly long-haul international is a plus, but what are my odds of doing so in the first few years? How many guys get the 757/767 as an initial assignment? Does the aircraft assignment come at the same time as the job offer?

 

[Palomino]

sounds like you'd have no trouble being assigned the 757 as a newhire if that's what you wanted. i believe you place your bid during ground school and get your assignment in the first week or so

 

[ACWild]

The chance to fly long-haul international is a plus, but what are my odds of doing so in the first few years? How many guys get the 757/767 as an initial assignment? Does the aircraft assignment come at the same time as the job offer?

The 75/76 have been a junior bid so far. They will continue to hire into it through the year. The reason it's junior is because of the deadheading. As part of the givebacks, the 757 deadheading has been reduced to coach.

 

[Heavy Set]

The chance to fly long-haul international is a plus, but what are my odds of doing so in the first few years? How many guys get the 757/767 as an initial assignment? Does the aircraft assignment come at the same time as the job offer?

I know several recent hires who have gone straight into the international 757/767 at EWR. They operate as IROs on some of the return flights but they do get to see a lot of Europe. So, it is quite possible.

 

[Ty Webb]

If you want to go to a Major, go to Continental.
If you want to go to a National, go to Jetblue.

And if you want to fly with Uppercrud, do some C152 instruction on the side. He'll be the pimply-faced kid that hasn't discovered girls yet . . . .

 

[CAL EWR B737]

The reason it's junior is because of the deadheading. As part of the givebacks, the 757 deadheading has been reduced to coach.

Not exactly true. Yes, DH is a big part of it. DH is now paid at 50%, will be 75% this July and 100% July of 07. Even under the pre concessionary contract (contract 97) IRO's who dead headed over to Europe (on all flights scheduled less than 8 hours) got positive space coach and standby for F/C. The same holds true today, however since we don't upgrade everyone under the sun on international flights as opposed to domestic flights (for international must pay for it or give up miles) most of the time those who DH over do end up upgrading to F/C while DH over.

The DH pay issue along with the crew rest seat is a huge bone of contention. Prior to the contract when the flight required an IRO (most westbound flights) the crew got a business first seat for crew rest. Now they get a row of three coach seats and standby for the B/F seat. However there has been numerous problems with European station agents upgrading Non Revs to B/F and continuing to give the crew a row in coach or worse only a single seat in coach.

As an aside note widebody FO's use to have a good deal going. It was not uncommon for senior wide body FO's to make 180K and up. They were making more than a reserve 737 CA. Now that our POS contract has domesticated our international flying those perks have gone by the waist side. Also this crew rest stuff is only on the 756. The 777 has two crew bunks and IRO's on the B737 (do some long Central America and Caribbean turns) still get a F/C seat.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

The chance to fly long-haul international is a plus, but what are my odds of doing so in the first few years? How many guys get the 757/767 as an initial assignment? Does the aircraft assignment come at the same time as the job offer?

Your odds of flying the B757/B767 flown as a single base called 756 are about 100% in the first few years. If you don't get it right out of the box (see other response as to why so junior) you can immediately bid the B756 and be released from your B737 freeze. Same goes true with going to the B777. It goes junior on the bottom. We have a two year equipment freeze however you can get out of it by upgrading to captain or going up to a larger aircraft as an FO or CA. We have at least two system bids a year no more than ten months apart. With all the retirements and international expansion you should be able to fly the 756 within six to twelve months after DOH if you get the 737.

 

[ATRedneck]

IRO's on the B737 (do some long Central America and Caribbean turns) still get a F/C seat.

Is that for the crew rest segment on which an IRO is required, or is that for the DH on the non-IRO leg?

And on the IRO-required segment, does the IRO sit in the designated rest seats during takeoff and landing, or in the jumpseat?

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Is that for the crew rest segment on which an IRO is required, or is that for the DH on the non-IRO leg?

And on the IRO-required segment, does the IRO sit in the designated rest seats during takeoff and landing, or in the jumpseat?

All the DH stuff is on the B756 and a small amount on the B777 in IAH. The only reason the IRO's DH to Europe on the B756 used to be (pre concessionary contract) to avoid having to block a B/F seat for crew rest. Since the IRO wasn't required for the East bound flight (under 8 hours) they increased the revenue potential for the flight by being able to sell an extra B/F seat. The IRO who was DH was PS0 so he/she would be first for an upgrade if the seat was available. Interesting note is this really isn't safe. Most east bound flights are all night and most of our pilots commute to EWR. So some of these guys/gals commuted in from the West coast. They really should use the IRO both ways. So the IRO used to get the same pay on the DH and IRO segments.

Post concessionary contract the company saves on the pay for DH. Since the IRO's DH over (east bound) it is at 50% pay and 100% pay when the fly IRO on the West bound leg. The bonus is they don't have to block a B/F seat from a full fare revenue pax on the West bound leg.

If you fly IRO on the B737 there is no DH. You fly IRO both ways. IRO's on all aircraft are required to sit in the cockpit from block out until top of climb and from top of descent to block in. It's my experience that since we don't use IRO's often on the B737 it's rare that the CA or FO ever use the IRO. So the IRO is in the cockpit for T/O and Landing and then is a food and movie critic most of the way. We have 10 and 11 hour turns out of EWR on the 737. About five years ago 737 IRO's were CA before they typed all the FO's needless to say it went very senior. Hope these past posts have cleared up the misunderstandings with DH and IRO's.

 

[ATRedneck]

It's my experience that since we don't use IRO's often on the B737 it's rare that the CA or FO ever use the IRO. So the IRO is in the cockpit for T/O and Landing and then is a food and movie critic most of the way.

I've heard other guys say pretty much the same thing for their IRO trips. (Quito turns mostly) On the 10 hour turns, is it actually legal then for the IRO to not actually fly, and the cockpit crew to not actually rest? (though I'd wager there's a cat-nap or two!) Or is the only black-and-white legality that an IRO actually be on board, and not necessarily used?

How do you log IRO time, only the time you're actually in one seat or the other, or what?

Oh, and do the 1st class seats on our 737's have power ports for laptops?

Sorry for all the gazillion questions. I'm sure they'll cover a lot of this stuff in indoc, but frankly I don't think I can wait till next week!

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I've heard other guys say pretty much the same thing for their IRO trips. (Quito turns mostly) On the 10 hour turns, is it actually legal then for the IRO to not actually fly, and the cockpit crew to not actually rest? (though I'd wager there's a cat-nap or two!) Or is the only black-and-white legality that an IRO actually be on board, and not necessarily used?

How do you log IRO time, only the time you're actually in one seat or the other, or what?

Oh, and do the 1st class seats on our 737's have power ports for laptops?

Sorry for all the gazillion questions. I'm sure they'll cover a lot of this stuff in indoc, but frankly I don't think I can wait till next week!

It's the captain's discretion on how to use the IRO the FAR's only dictate they be available and ready to relieve the crew.

As far as logging time as IRO (I haven't filled out my log book since 1991 and I was an A300 FO back then) my guess would be you could log it as second in command time when in one of the two pilot seats. There can be only one PIC and even though he/she is on break the captain is still responsible for the flight.

737's don't have power ports as of yet.