jetblue or continental ??

[BluDevAv8r]

The big retirements may seem good at CAL, but there may be hidden dangers to a new guy's career. I am not smart on their retirement plan, are they getting an A plan benefit? If so, you need to calculate the drain on the company and, in effect, the younger pilots. Can CAL handle it? They can't handle it at DAL. AA is worried they won't be able to handle it. The older pilots are not bad guys but they will shape your future in many ways. Having a younger (junior) pilot group at JetBlue eliminates that variable.

In CAL's latest negotiations round, they froze their A Plan so no, the pension obligations won't be getting any bigger. Also, DAL's pension obligation is $10b and CAL's is $1b. Big difference.

-Neal

 

[Saabslime]

Hey just think.........if you go to Jetblue you can be one of the trailblazers that bring 10-12 hour block days to the industry. I don't care if it is just for transcons, that would be a huge step backwards for this industry.

 

[Air Biscuit]

I can't believe this is even being debated. CAL will retire half of the seniority list in 5 years, are 5 times the size of Jet Blow, and has a major international route structure with widebody aircraft. Oh and I almost forgot, you don't have to clean the cabin.

 

[elag777]

I can't believe this is even being debated. CAL will retire half of the seniority list in 5 years, are 5 times the size of Jet Blow, and has a major international route structure with widebody aircraft. Oh and I almost forgot, you don't have to clean the cabin.

B6 is getting 330's for free, haven't you heard? going over the pond from EWR.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I can't believe this is even being debated. CAL will retire half of the seniority list in 5 years, are 5 times the size of Jet Blow, and has a major international route structure with widebody aircraft. Oh and I almost forgot, you don't have to clean the cabin.

CAL may be retiring 1/2 the list in 5 years. But JetBlue is doubling the number of A-320's and adding 190's. The fleet will almost triple in size.

CAL will payout on the A plans that haven't been "frozen". Not a huge burden I understand, but an expense. An expense the newhire at JetBlue will not have to shoulder.

Will CAL's fleet stay the same size or even grow? I hope so but that is not certain. Will JetBlue actually triple in size? I don't know. The struggle to compete against SWA and Airtran may take its toll. JetBlue pay can be cut more easily to keep the profits coming. Good for the company but bad if your mortgage is suddenly not covered. Without a union, JetBlue pilots can't take care of their own (themselves?) but they can't hose the company either.

Yeah, I think CAL is a better bet. Until the A-plan comes back or the MEC comes up with some other "improvement" to pilot compensation that proves to be ill advised.

 

[Pedro]

CAL will payout on the A plans that haven't been "frozen". Not a huge burden I understand, but an expense. An expense the newhire at JetBlue will not have to shoulder.
.

I would never make a decision based on retirement plans. Other than 401K I wouldn't even count on it, you have to be toonaive to believe that you will get it...

 

[InTheAir]

Any thoughts on what a new hire can expect at either airline?

Assuming you are based at JFK for jb or EWR for cal, how long on reserve, what are reserve lines like, how long is callout, etc.

These types of facts might help the decision process.

 

[propjob27]

CAL Info:

Most likely EWR based. If you get the 737, reserve will last about 3-4 months, assuming you're willing to bid the crappiest line you can hold.
If you get the 757/767, reserve about a year (I think). There have been people able to hold IAH right off the bat as a 737 new hire. Reserve in Houston will be much longer than in EWR. There are a couple of guys who got GUM too, but thats because they actually wanted it.

Reserve lines? 12 days off. Two types of callouts. One is 2 hours to the airport, the other is 9. Both are 12 days off, but the two hour callout pays a 76 hrs vs 72 for the 9 hour. I have no idea if the 9 hour is senior or not. Scheduling has proven to be very flexible when you call them and ask "can I move these days off to these days", inorder to create a larger stretch of days off, vs the 4 on/3 off schedule.

Hope this helps.

PS. All this is moot unless you actually have job offers from both companies.

 

[whymeworry?]

Hey whyme, I don't think all of us are kool aid drinkers, but so far, things have worked out pretty well for me. But, like the USA, we have our fair share of problems, but you wouldn't want to live, or here at JB, work anywhere else. It still amazes me though, how many experts on JB frequent these boards and offer their astute comments and opinions based on disinformation, rumor, and inuendo. I would suggest that you or anybody else that has a specific question PM any JB member with your question. I think you'd be supprised at the candor you'll get for an answer. I'll defend anybody's right of free speech here, but the spewing of gross inaccuracies and personal attacks is well below the dignity of the group of professional that we all claim to be.

I appreciate the clarification. I mean no offence to the JB guys and I have many friends there. It just seems a little "cultish" at times when I speak or listen to JB guys. But then I suppose that is the case at any airline that is growin, SWA gets that way now and again as well. I remember my buds at AQ getting cocky over the years as they were expanding to the mainland. Now they're quiet. Not that there is anyting wrong with loving your airline, your job or the aircraft you fly. But one must be careful to stay grounded (no pun intended) and not get too full of him/herself. Remember how the UAL pilots got in the 1990s.

As far as JB or CAL, it's a total tossup. JB is expanding rapidly but there are clouds on the horizon. CAL is expanding rapidly as well but they have a lot of debt coming due in '07. If the fuel environment spikes again that will most certainly spell trouble for CAL. At CAL you can go int'l. If you like flying all night that may be a good thing. At JB you get a desk up at altitude, assuming you get on the 'bus'.

Of course CAL is unionized, JB isn't. Considering this, CAL is the better alternative. JB guys are riding on cloud 9 because it's been nothing but earnings and growth over the past 5 years. If the company hits a couple of quarters of losses they will enforce paycuts with the swoop of a pen.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I would never make a decision based on retirement plans. Other than 401K I wouldn't even count on it, you have to be toonaive to believe that you will get it...

You misunderstand my point. I'm saying those above you with an A plan will be a drain on your income. I don't view an A plan as a positive. If you start young at a company with an A plan many may collect from it but it most likely will not include you.

Plan on an A plan to eventually haunt your company and your future if you are a new hire. It's become an unsustainable ponzi scheme the way American companies treat it.

BTW, with the recent CAL losses I've changed my mind again. JetBlue is the better bet.