Jetblue: Lateral Move For Regional Captains

[Scrapdog]

Whoa! Slow down. I never said JB wasn't a good airline. Like anything, JB has quite a few good things going for it, and some that certainly need improvement.

However, as far as pay goes - i.e. the "lateral" move for an RJ guy (which is how this thread started in the first place)...well, it's not good. As I've said twice, the allure of JB was early on, i.e. 5, 6 years ago - upgrades were at a blazing speed. If you got on 5 years ago and are now a 320 CA life isn't too shabby. If you're getting on now - compared to the legacies that are hiring (CAL, DAL) and SWA, FDX, UPS - JB doesn't hold a candle. No longer are upgrade times fast at JB and therefore that allure of making comparable money to a 5 year CA @ CAL for example (about 150/hr) are all but gone.

Last time I was in the CAL crew room in EWR I noticed quite a few JB guys in the new classes and I'm sure it's the same at DAL. Sorry, that's a fact.

 

[Truckdriver]

Working on additional:
30 MD 90's from China in exchange for 50 seat rj's
2 additional 777's from an Indian airline by the end of this year
787 order?! Mostly replacement of the 767 ER aircraft, but some will be additional aircraft.

How many aircraft does JB have on order?

737

Also working on a 100 seat option. Sounds like 25-40 airframes and they may be a variation on the 737-700. Something they are calling the 737-700 Lite. Between those, the 700's, and the additional 90's, the domestic fleet could increase by about 70 airframes over the next 5 years. Average of about 15 domestic airframes per year. Add that to the widebody growth and we need lots of pilots.

I think JetBlue was getting about 12 320's and 10 190's per year. I know they just deferred some more 190's and said they would sell 3 320's this year. Probably 8 190's per year and 12 320's per year with sales of 320's each year. I'd guess about a net airframe growth of 15 per year. They have an agreement that allows them to get the options as if they were firm orders if they need them. If the price of fuel drops, they could go up to as many as 8 more 190's and 4 more 320's. On a percentage wide basis, I think JetBlue is still the fastest growing domestic airline unless Skybus has taken that award now.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

I completely understand what it is and what it isn't. It isn't a DC plan and it is money that you probably would have gotten anyway. So if you had a DC plan you would get the 10% even if the company made no money. If they did make money you would get the 10% PLUS what you would have gotten from profit sharing. It's profit sharing that they are calling retirement. Profit sharing in a bonus program for helping the company make a profit it isn't retirement. It's no different than them telling you to count 2% of your premium pay as retirement and telling you that you have a 12% retirement plan.

You're dealing with semantics. Whether they call it "guaranteed profit sharing", "Getting old money", or "Cash for the old-folks strip club". It doesn't matter. We're getting 10% put in our retirement account

So if you had a DC plan you would get the 10% even if the company made no money.

WE DO GET IT EVEN IF THE COMPANY MAKES NO MONEY!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I'm thinking the B plan is a better deal though. It's someone else's money going into my pocket, no contribution required. If jb had a real B plan in addition to the 5% match and 5% profit sharing, then that would be something.

 

[Spectre]

Scrap - You, my friend, are 100% correct!! They "honeymoon" at JB is over and has been for some time.

Spectre - Answer us one question, please. If you were just coming off AD, where would JB be on your list of airlines to work for?

RM

Not a hard one to answer if I were just getting out of AD. First, I would consider how the age 65 retirement rule will effect each airline. I don't think going to an airline hoping for retirement attrition is best for upgrade times now at DAL, NWA, UAUA, SWA, or LCC. I would rather look at the airline's growth potential. Next, I would consider where you live in relation to an airline's hub. It's much better to live at base and not commute. Finally, I would look at job security.

1. FedEx
2. UPS
3. SWA
4. Virgin America
5. JetBlue
6. Everyone else

FedEx and UPS are always going to make money. If you don't mind the cargo flying, it's a great job. Then, SWA even with their slower growth and declining fuel hedges has great management and will always find a way to make money. Virgin America would be my next choice as upgrade times are quick, there are stock options which will be lucrative when they go public and damn, look at their website, their product is going to be hard to beat!

So, I'm being honest and I agree there are better gigs out there other than JetBlue. Again, this is for someone who is just starting out.

However, the grass is not always greener my friend. Just ask the SWA pilots who left SWA around 1999-2000 to seek better pay and bennies at the legacies who were later furloughed. If they would have stayed put, they'd be Captains on the B737 by now.

 

[Truckdriver]

You're dealing with semantics. Whether they call it "guaranteed profit sharing", "Getting old money", or "Cash for the old-folks strip club". It doesn't matter. We're getting 10% put in our retirement account



WE DO GET IT EVEN IF THE COMPANY MAKES NO MONEY!

Not going to argue with you. If you like what you have then that is great. In the end it is 10%. However, let's say JetBlue pays 5% profit sharing this year based on how the year ends up. You will get 10% in your 401K. If you had a DC plan you would end up with 15%. That is all I was trying to say. No other airline counts profit sharing as retirement and JetBlue shouldn't either. However, that is just my opinion.

 

[thor2j]

Not a hard one to answer if I were just getting out of AD. First, I would consider how the age 65 retirement rule will effect each airline. I don't think going to an airline hoping for retirement attrition is best for upgrade times now at DAL, NWA, UAUA, SWA, or LCC. I would rather look at the airline's growth potential. Next, I would consider where you live in relation to an airline's hub. It's much better to live at base and not commute. Finally, I would look at job security.

1. FedEx
2. UPS
3. SWA
4. Virgin America
5. JetBlue
6. Everyone else

FedEx and UPS are always going to make money. If you don't mind the cargo flying, it's a great job. Then, SWA even with their slower growth and declining fuel hedges has great management and will always find a way to make money. Virgin America would be my next choice as upgrade times are quick, there are stock options which will be lucrative when they go public and damn, look at their website, their product is going to be hard to beat!

So, I'm being honest and I agree there are better gigs out there other than JetBlue. Again, this is for someone who is just starting out.

However, the grass is not always greener my friend. Just ask the SWA pilots who left SWA around 1999-2000 to seek better pay and bennies at the legacies who were later furloughed. If they would have stayed put, they'd be Captains on the B737 by now.

If you serioulsy believe beyond number 3 you have drank way too much blue juice!

 

[Lear70]

If you serioulsy believe beyond number 3 you have drank way too much blue juice!

Agreed.

Spectre, you're honestly going to put Virgin America at #4 for career potential? Above DAL or CAL?

Not to mention you completely left out ABX which is at the crux of their hiring boom and pays almost as good as UPS or FDX and has excellent job security.

And exactly HOW many new aircraft is JB slated to receive over the next 5 years? With what kind of financial performance over the last few years?

Don't get me wrong, I think JB is stable and a good place to work, my friends who are there love it. They're also Captains. I just don't follow the whole Virgin America thing being #4 and VA and JB being a long-term more viable career than DAL or CAL if you're just NOW getting hired at one of those airlines.

Could be wrong... I've been caught with my pants down with my airline going out of business before, so what do I know.

 

[ootskdog]

I'm saving mine for my son...

Please don't subject your family members to this profession!

 

[nosoupforyou!]

I can't complain.
My first line held off reserve as an airbus FO was 92 hours and 14 days off.

Now, 1.5 years into it I got 17 days off with 86 hours and commutable trips on both ends.

I enjoy working here.