Jetblue: Lateral Move For Regional Captains

[Truckdriver]

You're dealing with semantics. Whether they call it "guaranteed profit sharing", "Getting old money", or "Cash for the old-folks strip club". It doesn't matter. We're getting 10% put in our retirement account



WE DO GET IT EVEN IF THE COMPANY MAKES NO MONEY!

Not going to argue with you. If you like what you have then that is great. In the end it is 10%. However, let's say JetBlue pays 5% profit sharing this year based on how the year ends up. You will get 10% in your 401K. If you had a DC plan you would end up with 15%. That is all I was trying to say. No other airline counts profit sharing as retirement and JetBlue shouldn't either. However, that is just my opinion.

 

[thor2j]

Not a hard one to answer if I were just getting out of AD. First, I would consider how the age 65 retirement rule will effect each airline. I don't think going to an airline hoping for retirement attrition is best for upgrade times now at DAL, NWA, UAUA, SWA, or LCC. I would rather look at the airline's growth potential. Next, I would consider where you live in relation to an airline's hub. It's much better to live at base and not commute. Finally, I would look at job security.

1. FedEx
2. UPS
3. SWA
4. Virgin America
5. JetBlue
6. Everyone else

FedEx and UPS are always going to make money. If you don't mind the cargo flying, it's a great job. Then, SWA even with their slower growth and declining fuel hedges has great management and will always find a way to make money. Virgin America would be my next choice as upgrade times are quick, there are stock options which will be lucrative when they go public and damn, look at their website, their product is going to be hard to beat!

So, I'm being honest and I agree there are better gigs out there other than JetBlue. Again, this is for someone who is just starting out.

However, the grass is not always greener my friend. Just ask the SWA pilots who left SWA around 1999-2000 to seek better pay and bennies at the legacies who were later furloughed. If they would have stayed put, they'd be Captains on the B737 by now.

If you serioulsy believe beyond number 3 you have drank way too much blue juice!

 

[Lear70]

If you serioulsy believe beyond number 3 you have drank way too much blue juice!

Agreed.

Spectre, you're honestly going to put Virgin America at #4 for career potential? Above DAL or CAL?

Not to mention you completely left out ABX which is at the crux of their hiring boom and pays almost as good as UPS or FDX and has excellent job security.

And exactly HOW many new aircraft is JB slated to receive over the next 5 years? With what kind of financial performance over the last few years?

Don't get me wrong, I think JB is stable and a good place to work, my friends who are there love it. They're also Captains. I just don't follow the whole Virgin America thing being #4 and VA and JB being a long-term more viable career than DAL or CAL if you're just NOW getting hired at one of those airlines.

Could be wrong... I've been caught with my pants down with my airline going out of business before, so what do I know.

 

[ootskdog]

I'm saving mine for my son...

Please don't subject your family members to this profession!

 

[nosoupforyou!]

I can't complain.
My first line held off reserve as an airbus FO was 92 hours and 14 days off.

Now, 1.5 years into it I got 17 days off with 86 hours and commutable trips on both ends.

I enjoy working here.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

My math shows you average over 102 credit hours a month. Are you including your per diem?

He must be flying on his days off and selling his PTO for simple math tells me with 1000 max flight hours a year (91 hrs./mo times 11 to account for 1 month of vacation) the max he can make is :
70 x 127 x 11 (=97790) + 21 x 190 x 11 (=43890) for a total of 141680. Add to that the 1 month vacation when he uses his max. of 125 hrs of PTO x 127/hr (=15875) and he ends up with 157555 for the year.
Divide that by 12 and he gets 13129/mo.

I do not count per diem for you use most of it up on the road.

 

[Dogwood]

Glad to hear things are picking up at DAL. However, lets look at some other legacies.

6 year Captain pay:

USAir A320 $117/HR
NWA DC9 $118/HR
UAL A320 $125/HR

My pay at JetBlue is $127/hr and $190/hr after 70 hours. At NWA, it's probably going to take over 10 years to upgrade to DC-9 Captain. That's 200+ retirements a year and negative growth as they are not replacing the DC-9s being parked. Plus, it takes over 80 hours to get premium pay.

To add, here's a number most don't know. For a 6 year pilot, JetBlue pays another 10 hours/month in PTO (personal time off). This pay can either be used as days off, sick time that pays premium or cashed out at any pay period. You are allowed up to 200 hours in this bank. It's use or lose, so at some point people here are getting it as additional pay or more time off.

Sure, junior guys always want what senior guys have. That's the same at any airline. However, just this year alone, E190 guys and FO's on the A320 have had a larger percentage pay increase than Captains on the A320.

To add, this year our 401K matching was increased from 3% to 5% and we also have 5% profit sharing whether the company makes money or not. We also have a new long term disability for pilots which I feel is industry leading. You get an average of your last 12 months pay until retirement age.

Finally, some of us have over 20,000 shares of JetBlue stock options while junior guys have around 6,000 shares. Sorry new guys who have zero. One bright spot though, if our stock goes over $20/share, you new guys may be moving up a couple 100 line numbers...

JetBlue isn't perfect, but over the last 7 years, every pilot has had some sort of pay increase even after 9/11, no pay cuts, and no union dues.

The main point should be this is at an 8 yr old airline.
Small steps to where we eventually need to be, but slowly getting there.

 

[The Victors]

wow. I haven't been paying that much attention. I can't beleive the pay is that low for the left seat. Anyway, jb is a good place to work. I just think they're right at that point where they are going to make it or not. btw, that PTO thing is very cool.

 

[Spectre]

He must be flying on his days off and selling his PTO for simple math tells me with 1000 max flight hours a year (91 hrs./mo times 11 to account for 1 month of vacation) the max he can make is :
70 x 127 x 11 (=97790) + 21 x 190 x 11 (=43890) for a total of 141680. Add to that the 1 month vacation when he uses his max. of 125 hrs of PTO x 127/hr (=15875) and he ends up with 157555 for the year.
Divide that by 12 and he gets 13129/mo.

I do not count per diem for you use most of it up on the road.

I can't post my entire paycheck for obvious personal reasons, but here's most of it. As you can see, through 6.5 months, I am averaging $15K/month. If I worked my ass off, maybe I would break $180K, but I think I'll be shooting for under $170K. To add, my pay rate was $120/hr prior to July 8. After July 8, I received my 6th year 6% pay boost.

Per diem or not, you are not including 2 training events/year for Captains which is not considered flight time. More importantly, don't sell your PTO or use vacation time here at JetBlue. Sure, use PTO for selected legs, but never entire trips or for vacation because that same bank is only paid out as straight pay. Be smart and take those hours as sick pay (PTS) on one or two 4-5 day trips/year which IS paid out at the premium rate.

Date Type of pay Available PTO Balance
07/20/2007 Regular payroll 133.01
Summary Gross Pay Taxes Deductions Net Pay
Current 4,336.85 779.77 1,190.09- 2,366.99
YTD 99,393.65 23,025.51 21,229.82- 55,138.32


EARNINGS Hours Rate Amount YTD Amount
Regular Pay 18.69 126.72 2,368.40
Regular Pay 16.31 120.69 1,968.45 59,057.70
Ground Holding Time 116.00
Ground School 482.76
Premium Pay 33,618.20
Buddy Passes 150.00
Holiday Pay 4,356.91
PTO 1,762.08
Adj. Taxable Per Diem 63.68


TAX DEDUCTIONS Tax amount YTD Amount
FED Withholding Tax 459.02 15,555.44
FED EE Social Security Ta 258.90 6,039.42
FED EE Medicare Tax 60.55 1,412.45
NY EE Disability Tax 1.30 18.20


OTHER DEDUCTIONS Amount YTD Amount
Flight Crew Parking 238.00-
Med United pre 125.00 1,750.00
Dental EE pre 30.51 427.14
Vision EE pre 8.01 112.14
401K pct EE pre 216.84 8,276.98
FSA Medical EE pre 50.00 700.00
Supplemental AD&D EE post 8.88 124.32
STD Voluntary EE post 39.19 548.66
CSPP EE post 433.69 9,939.40

DEDUCTIONS (NOT TAX-EXEMPT) Rate Number Amount YTD Amount
NonTax Per Diem not taxed 4,181.76
Taxable Per Diem 56.96

 

[The Victors]

for the record, I meant the quoted CA pay rates for nwa, ual, and us air.

 

[thor2j]

Here's my math. I can't post my entire paycheck for obvious personal reasons, but here's most of it. As you can see, through 6.5 months, I am averaging $15K/month. If I worked my ass off, maybe I would break $180K, but I think I'll be shooting for under $170K. To add, my pay rate was $120/hr prior to July 8. After July 8, I received my 6th year 6% pay boost.

Per diem or not, you are not including 2 training events/year for Captains which is not considered flight time and no one here who is smart is going to take the majority of their PTO as straight pay. Most take those hours as sick pay which IS paid out at the premium rate.

Date Type of pay Available PTO Balance
07/20/2007 Regular payroll 133.01
Summary Gross Pay Taxes Deductions Net Pay
Current 4,336.85 779.77 1,190.09- 2,366.99
YTD 99,393.65 23,025.51 21,229.82- 55,138.32

EARNINGS Hours Rate Amount YTD Amount
Regular Pay 18.69 126.72 2,368.40
Regular Pay 16.31 120.69 1,968.45 59,057.70
Ground Holding Time 116.00
Ground School 482.76
Premium Pay 33,618.20
Buddy Passes 150.00
Holiday Pay 4,356.91
PTO 1,762.08
Adj. Taxable Per Diem 63.68

TAX DEDUCTIONS Tax amount YTD Amount
FED Withholding Tax 459.02 15,555.44
FED EE Social Security Ta 258.90 6,039.42
FED EE Medicare Tax 60.55 1,412.45
NY EE Disability Tax 1.30 18.20

OTHER DEDUCTIONS Amount YTD Amount
Flight Crew Parking 238.00-
Med United pre 125.00 1,750.00
Dental EE pre 30.51 427.14
Vision EE pre 8.01 112.14
401K pct EE pre 216.84 8,276.98
FSA Medical EE pre 50.00 700.00
Supplemental AD&D EE post 8.88 124.32
STD Voluntary EE post 39.19 548.66
CSPP EE post 433.69 9,939.40

DEDUCTIONS (NOT TAX-EXEMPT) Rate Number Amount YTD Amount
NonTax Per Diem not taxed 4,181.76
Taxable Per Diem 56.96

What the hell are you guys volunteering for over there?????

 

[Lear70]

That's Short Term Disability.

Not many airlines have it, it's a nice insurance policy, but looks a bit pricey.

 

[Lake Alice]

If you think ABX is a good place to work then obviously you haven't checked your facts.

 

[g159av8tor]

Glad to hear things are picking up at DAL. However, lets look at some other legacies.

6 year Captain pay:

USAir A320 $117/HR
NWA DC9 $118/HR
UAL A320 $125/HR

My pay at JetBlue is $127/hr and $190/hr after 70 hours. At NWA, it's probably going to take over 10 years to upgrade to DC-9 Captain. That's 200+ retirements a year and negative growth as they are not replacing the DC-9s being parked. Plus, it takes over 80 hours to get premium pay.

To add, here's a number most don't know. For a 6 year pilot, JetBlue pays another 10 hours/month in PTO (personal time off). This pay can either be used as days off, sick time that pays premium or cashed out at any pay period. You are allowed up to 200 hours in this bank. It's use or lose, so at some point people here are getting it as additional pay or more time off.

Sure, junior guys always want what senior guys have. That's the same at any airline. However, just this year alone, E190 guys and FO's on the A320 have had a larger percentage pay increase than Captains on the A320.

To add, this year our 401K matching was increased from 3% to 5% and we also have 5% profit sharing whether the company makes money or not. We also have a new long term disability for pilots which I feel is industry leading. You get an average of your last 12 months pay until retirement age.

Finally, some of us have over 20,000 shares of JetBlue stock options while junior guys have around 6,000 shares. Sorry new guys who have zero. One bright spot though, if our stock goes over $20/share, you new guys may be moving up a couple 100 line numbers...

JetBlue isn't perfect, but over the last 7 years, every pilot has had some sort of pay increase even after 9/11, no pay cuts, and no union dues.

I am definately not a Blue Juicer nor do I post that much, but threads of these types always turn into a sword fight. And then there are the guys that piss and moan over a coupledollars-literally-of hourly pay here and there.

Only a pilot would brag about being the highest paid at $90/HR than the lowest paid at $95/HR.

Upgrade time, like everything else in this industry, is just pure dumb luck timing. The guys that took a chance at B6 have been luckily rewarded. Newhires under the age of [insert DOB] at DAL/CAL will have a flourishing career flying widebodies prancing around the globe. That 42 year old guy is never gonna see it. He must be stupid.

You aren't geniuses--you are lucky. Rememebr that UAL pilot on Oprah that was crying because he couldn't afford to send his daughter to private school and they had to sell their McMansion in like Crystal Lake? He's probably still crying.

Tailwinds...

 

[Truckdriver]

Upgrade time, like everything else in this industry, is just pure dumb luck timing. The guys that took a chance at B6 have been luckily rewarded. Newhires under the age of [insert DOB] at DAL/CAL will have a flourishing career flying widebodies prancing around the globe. That 42 year old guy is never gonna see it. He must be stupid.

You aren't geniuses--you are lucky.

That is the best line I've read in a long time. I agree 100%. Hopefully the luck won't run out because there were some fellas in the exact same position around 1999 and 2000.