jetBlue hires Freedom types!?!

[DGdaPilot]

If management takes care of it's employees, then unions are not really needed, right? I know it's rare, but that's my impression. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[SRJ]

I think it is funny how mad MESA pilots get at Freedom pilots for apparently taking their jobs when the Mesa pilots are basically doing the same thing to the rest of the industry.

 

[Kaman]

I was really surprised to see Clay Lacy on that list...

 

[91100 100 set]

interesting list...

I had never actually "seen" such a complete scab list. I did used to carry around a Freedom list that I picked up in the USEX crewroom in PHL, but it was very short (only 20-30 names), and considering it was out in plain view for all to take, I don't know how official it was (since it was just pinned to the board and not in a locked ALPA board).

I noticed that a few folks on the list were ATC scabs in the remarks area, but there was no dedicated section of the list for them. Aviation is a small world, and I figure that there are some of them floating around in the airlines (my company had one, but he's now working for a contract tower in the northeast). Their actions might not have been a direct attack on our profession, it was an attack on organized labor.

 

[Skank]

ACT what is a bunch? I could only find one, far fewer than any other major. But thanks for the unsubstantiated rumor mongering, it works well for you.

 

[sf3boy]

Skank,
I think WN screening out scabs in the interview process is a good practice. WN runs a fun, and profitable airline. They have a very specific recipe for success that no other current 121 operator can compete with. That being said, when they interview people for positions with their airline they do not want to see people come in and stir the coals of any ill feelings in the cockpit, on the ramp, or in the board room.

As far as being a legal practice...who cares. UA, NW,US and others all are proud to have hiring practices that eliminates qualified applicants just to hire less or unqualified applicants. Is that legal? Sure it is. They can hire anyone they want.

 

[AviatorTx]

Mr. Thread starter: Nice try. Now, does anyone have anything real we can discuss?

Yes. I heard you Jet Blue pilots have to help clean the airplane (including the lav) between turns. Is this true?

I am not trying to start sh*t here, I promise. I really heard that and just want to see if it's true. Thanks.

As far as the SCAB talk. Here is the definition straight from Websters:

Main Entry: 1scab
Pronunciation: 'skab
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch -- more at SHAVE
1 : scabies of domestic animals
2 : a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound
3 a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
4 : any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Yes. I heard you Jet Blue pilots have to help clean the airplane (including the lav) between turns. Is this true?

I am not trying to start sh*t here, I promise. I really heard that and just want to see if it's true. Thanks.

As far as the SCAB talk. Here is the definition straight from Websters:

Main Entry: 1scab
Pronunciation: 'skab
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch -- more at SHAVE
1 : scabies of domestic animals
2 : a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound
3 a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
4 : any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots

Highly doubt it - but don't know.

 

[Skank]

Absolutely true. I lick the toilet clean myself. Sorry, for the sarcasm. Actually, most of us do help in the back. Nobody from the flight or inflight crew touches the lav. If you think that this is an odd practice, then say so at your interview. We'd like to know. BTW, noone is required to help. If you worked here you'd know why we want to help. If you can't believe or understand the practice, then I don't think there is anything I can say here that will change your feelings. If doing a little cleaning belittles you, you aren't all that big to begin with.

 

[AviatorTx]

Skank,

Thanks. Like I said, I was not trying to be a smart@$$ (this time), I had just heard that and wanted to know.

Thanks for being honest. "To each his own" holds true here. I meant no disrespect in the question.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

WN won't hire scabs? I've wanted to work for them for a while but now I want to even more. Sitting to the right of one of those scumbag Freedom motherfu(kers is a situation I do not want to ever put myself in. 31 years until retirement and that list will be with me until the last day.

 

[T-Gates]

WN must have changed thier policy to not hire scabs recently, because I know for a fact the guy who ran the airplane off the end of the runway in Burbank was a Wein Scab.

 

[Skank]

You're correct, he was. And all this talk about WN not hiring scabs is hearsay that everyone here has taken as fact. I'd like to hear it from a reputable source, and no, none of us are all that reputable as far as this stuff goes.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>I meant no disrespect in the question<<<

The question was:

>>>I heard you Jet Blue pilots have to help clean the airplane (including the lav) between turns. Is this true?<<<

Does anyone, and I mean ANYONE, think that "no disrespect" was intended in the question? Esp. when the poster interjects that practically anyone who works "for less than union wages or on nonunion terms" is a "scab"?

Saying something about JetBlue pilots, are we AviatorTx? Or is it just Mesa you're bashing (since, of course, the Freedom pilots were working for "union wages", and thusly are scabs, right?)? It's hard to tell.

 

[crj579]

History Lesson
Beginning of Freedom
Take notes: This will be on the Final!

Several years before Freedom started, JO opted for 70-90 seat aircraft. Mesa ALPA knew about it but decided to sit on their @ss and not inform or otherwise make headway towards communicating with their members or getting much going in the way of negotiations until only months before they arrived. There was a scope clause by US Airways that supposedly interpreted that 70-90 seats could not be flown even with America West. Then you have Duane Woerth saying publicly that the 90-seat was not a regional aircraft. It was to the point where the airplanes were already with the paint on them and AH was willing to let them sit as a negotiating tactic ( he wanted them flown for more than AWA pilots were making) and meanwhile the head dudes at ALPA were in close contact with Mesa Mec. It does not take a brain surgeon to see that ALPA did not want them flown at a regional carrier

 

[crj579]

History Lesson Part 2
Beginning of Freedom


Even with most of the instructors at Mesa gone to Freedom training, Andy Hughes was still telling people that Freedom would never happen. I am sure that Duane Woerth and Andy Hughes were hoping that it wouldn't. Yes, without Freedom I am positive that Mesa would not have those aircraft at their company. Most of the Freedom pilots I have talked to knew that eventually it probably be merged back into Mesa, but what they didn't expect was a worse contract than they had at Freedom. Some pilots at Mesa still believe they shouldn't be flying them - but still do of course, while bad -mouthing the original pilots for helping them get them their new shinyjets. I am sure AH will never admit to not wanting them at Mesa. Personally I think all regional pilots should only fly the BE1900 (sarcasm intended). Also, if flying for less than union wages makes you a scab, shouldn't all Mesa pilots be scabs? .

 

[Krusty]

what makes them a SCAB?

What picket line did they cross?

Are they truly on the same list as EAL and CAL? No.

quit bltching, fix your own airline.

 

[F70pilot]

if flying for less than union wages makes you a scab, shouldn't all Mesa pilots be scabs? .

Mesa is ALPA. Ipso facto whatever they get paid it's "union" wages.

 

[AviatorTx]

Does anyone, and I mean ANYONE, think that "no disrespect" was intended in the question? Esp. when the poster interjects that practically anyone who works "for less than union wages or on nonunion terms" is a "scab"?

OK, I meant no disrespect on the part about asking about the cleaning of the plane.

As far as the union issue... I personally don't think pilots that intentionally fly for non union carriers and helping feed the race to the bottom are scabs. I believe they are just one small (very small) step from being scabs.

Just my two cents. This is a unionized profession. It has been for many years. The non-union supporters out there are undermining the industry, while riding on the coat-tails of everything the unions have accomplished for the last 50+ years.

It's OK... Keep looking out for yourselves and sooner or later Branson will come in with another bottom feeder and hire a lot more. Sooner or later, status quo for a 20 year 747 Captain will just be worth 150,000 a year. Lets just keep heading for the bottom. As long as the CEO's keep making millions a year, thats all that matters.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Let's turn that around real quick-

Suppose you were out of work.

Suppose you had no offers from any union carrier that paid adecent wage.

Suppose your only offers were from bottom-rung regionals, with crappy contracts and poor quality of life.

You would not take a job at a non-union carrier?

You would not fly a 747 for ,as you put it, $150K?

My hunch is that you would.

Perhaps you would go take a union warehouse job instead.

Somehow, I doubt it.

Everyone wants someone else to fall on their sword to pretect their postion, or perceived prejudice.

Would I fly for Branson if I could, and no one else would hire me?
Probably.

Why not? If I take one for the team to "protect" someone elses job, I assure you that the someone will be more than happy to take the position.

Would I scab? Never. Absolutely not.

The difference is a question of values.

Flying for an LCC that pays poorly is legal.
Scabbing won't get you thrown in jail either, will it?

So what 's the difference?

Since both are legal, it is only a question of ethics whether a person decides to do one or the other.

Painting them both with the same brush is highly questionable.

 

[Skank]

OK, I meant no disrespect on the part about asking about the cleaning of the plane.

As far as the union issue... I personally don't think pilots that intentionally fly for non union carriers and helping feed the race to the bottom are scabs. I believe they are just one small (very small) step from being scabs.

Just my two cents. This is a unionized profession. It has been for many years. The non-union supporters out there are undermining the industry, while riding on the coat-tails of everything the unions have accomplished for the last 50+ years.

It's OK... Keep looking out for yourselves and sooner or later Branson will come in with another bottom feeder and hire a lot more. Sooner or later, status quo for a 20 year 747 Captain will just be worth 150,000 a year. Lets just keep heading for the bottom. As long as the CEO's keep making millions a year, thats all that matters.

OK, so all the ALPA carriers working for less than us are what, Super scabs? You people love to throw that word around in utter ignorance. This is a unionized profession? By who's decree? Yours? A union is there for your service. When it no longer serves your needs, you get rid of it. If it is serving your needs, keep it, by all means.

This whole industry, inspite of the presence of ALPA, has always been made up of groups looking out for themselves. Think B-Scale, TWA takeover, etc. Then go ahead and get real.

 

[N93]

Everbody that works at MESA is a JO whore with a Scarlet P stamped to their forehead. "Gotta build that fligh time", "Man I would fly that thing for free" "it's only temporary to get me the big job" "it's beats instructing for ten bucks an hour". This profession is nothing but whores and Mesa is one of the lower class ones. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Ponchus pilot]

I've been told that WN is carefully screening them out. True? Legal? I for one don't know how you could do it (considering all the legalities concerning hiring),

It usually goes like this: Sorry you do not meet our needs, or some $hit like that.