Jetblue ERJ's

[jetblue320]

Maybe you guys can get your union to make the company give you some different shirts so you don't look like Caravan pilots walking through the terminal. Let the world know that you are RJ pilots, not Caravan pilots, damit!

We'll be sure to put it on the ballot at the next union meeting.

C ya

 

[lowecur]

It is an RJ! But why do any of us care. Let the passengers decide. I promise people will buy tickets to fly on it even if it is uncomfortable and little (I assume it will suck to ride on like all the other ERJ's so far). Thats all that really matters.

Hey Bill, why don't you go find a trailer hitch and see if you can su*k all the chrome off it.

 

[Lear70]

It is an RJ! But why do any of us care. Let the passengers decide. I promise people will buy tickets to fly on it even if it is uncomfortable and little (I assume it will suck to ride on like all the other ERJ's so far). Thats all that really matters.

That depends. I went and took a look at the interior specs off the website. If you're 6' 2" or shorter, you should be able to stand up without a problem (I'm 5' 11" so I'm set). That's my big complaint, that on a longer trip I can't even stand up to stretch.

Secondly, if the seats are as comfy as other jetBlue seats, have the nifty little TV sets, and have just as good or better seat pitch so my knees don't get smashed when the guy in front of me reclines (which is what happens to me on the Northwest DC-9 I have to commute on which holds 105 people), I don't think the pax will care, as I wouldn't and I'm in the back of one of those things 2 or 3 times a week...

Just a thought... and you guys were right about the 170/190 thing, hadn't done that much research until now. Should be fun to fly! Cheers...

 

[Skygod]

NOT SO FAST BROTHER 320!

First you need to draft a motion, then enter it into the meeting agenda, have it seconded, have the draft wording approved by ALPA national, allow 10 working days (or 250 non-holiday hours) for the motion to be posted at the JFK LEC level . . . and THEN we can have a show of hands at the meeting as to moving forward to MEC review, final draft wording pending legal review and alignment with our master 10-year plan and our vision statement, to be followed by posting on the LGB and FLL base LEC boards . . . and THEN we can move to an official mail-in ballet.

After that we'll forward to results to the Negotiation Commitee for their consideration in the next round of contract talks. If contract language is changed, then we'll need to meet again with management to discuss the implementation plan. Then we'll need to block time with an arbitrator to settle the numerous grivances resulting from the change in shirt color.

I think we can change to a shade of blue more matching my eyes in about 6 years and $290,000 in union dues. Time and money well spent I think we can all agree.

 

[Skank]

Our Blue shirts some of you hate so much hide the ring-around-the-collar better than those white shirts do. Beyond that, who cares? Oh, and about that RJ or not thing, who cares? Life is too short to be debating that stuff ad naseum.

 

[waterski]

So let's see a Supra its not a Toyota but a Corrolla is..right...
EMB (fill in the blanks) it's an RJ and thats why we are always
going to be uderpaid..

 

[SpeedBird]

Here's one definition:

Click Here



And Another [Note the RJ definition in paragraph (6)]:


Click Here

There are a lot of shades of gray in how a RJ is defined depending on who you ask. However, the idea that Embraer is the manufacturer, ergo all its different aircraft types are RJs is faulty logic.

 

[jetblue320]

NOT SO FAST BROTHER 320!

First you need to draft a motion, then enter it into the meeting agenda, have it seconded, have the draft wording approved by ALPA national, allow 10 working days (or 250 non-holiday hours) for the motion to be posted at the JFK LEC level . . . and THEN we can have a show of hands at the meeting as to moving forward to MEC review, final draft wording pending legal review and alignment with our master 10-year plan and our vision statement, to be followed by posting on the LGB and FLL base LEC boards . . . and THEN we can move to an official mail-in ballet.

After that we'll forward to results to the Negotiation Commitee for their consideration in the next round of contract talks. If contract language is changed, then we'll need to meet again with management to discuss the implementation plan. Then we'll need to block time with an arbitrator to settle the numerous grivances resulting from the change in shirt color.

I think we can change to a shade of blue more matching my eyes in about 6 years and $290,000 in union dues. Time and money well spent I think we can all agree.

Sounds simple enough.

 

[Mr Hat]

When are you guys gonna learn?
The E145 is not a "regional jet"
The E170 is not a "regional jet"
The E190 is not a "Regional jet"

There is NO such thing as a regional jet. Yes the E145 was originally designed for small feeder operations but over time the mission changed. What region am I flying in when I go from EWR to NAS in my E145, or EWR to MCI?

The term regional jet is one that is used by the greedy managements of the world in order to ratchet down pilot wages, period, end of story.
Therefore the E190's that JetBlue is buying are definatly NOT regional jets. JetBlue is using the airplane as part of their grand plan.....not as an excuse to water down their wages.

SOOO you "Mine airplane and beat up your airplane" types, get used to it....when you finally finish flight school, you'll probably end up an an Embraer for a little while.

Me? Yep I fly the E145, its a good airplane and I would be thrilled to fly the E190 for JetBlue. Frankly, I think the E190 is kinda sexy.

 

[flx757]

That's been my point all along. 30+ posts debating the useless argument of the definition of "regional jet".

 

[CF34-3B1]

Put 100 seat EMBs at any "regional" and see how many 'major' pilots still call it an RJ. They'd be screaming "That's mine" louder than they did during thier 5th divorce.

 

[a320drivr]

Some of you guys and girls crack me up. "Its an RJ!!!" , "No its not an RJ!!!!" My opinion is that it is not an RJ. It will be more comfortable in the cabin than the 320. I will say this though and I'm not proud of it. The 190 will be the lowest paid 100 seater in the industry if our mgmt. establishes the pay rates they want. It kind of bums me out. Guys at Comair will be making more flying a 50 seater.

 

[Nalo Boy]

what makes an RJ an RJ? I thought the 190 was an RJ, but is there a definition....or does nobody want to be an "RJ Driver"

all I care about is money, and days off.

 

[Bill Nelson]

SOOO you "Mine airplane and beat up your airplane" types, get used to it....when you finally finish flight school, you'll probably end up an an Embraer for a little while.

Ya, then they all will hope that they can move on to a major airline and fly real airplanes. RJ's are for building time.

 

[airbaker]

The 190 will be the lowest paid 100 seater in the industry if our mgmt. establishes the pay rates they want. It kind of bums me out. Guys at Comair will be making more flying a 50 seater.

a320drivr,

I hear you on that one! I was hoping we'd have one payrate for all a/c on our property. It would sure go a long way in preventing the walls and divisions that inevitably form with different fleet types (how come the EMB guys are getting all the San Juan layovers now...why can't "we" get more productive trips, etc...) Not to mention the costs saved in training (seat locks can only do so much)

If we, being Jetblue, supposedly set the price in a lot of markets, why can't we charge enough to allow for this? Then there is the whole retort that the Airbus guys generate more revenue thus garner a higher wage. Well, this is completely non-scientific, but assume an Airbus guy flies one trans-con in a duty day versus the Emb guy flying three legs. The Airbus guy flew 156 people vs the 300 for the Emb. So who brought in more revenue? I know, I know, it's all about RASM vs CASM; but is there really that much dilution in yield? I seriously don't know, I'm asking!

Obviously I'm just paid to fly the planes and not make these types of decisions. That's why we have our excellent management team, for whom I have the greatest respect and confidence in. But in a perfect world, I'd hope we'd set a good standard for this new fleet type.

 

[Blue Dude]

Ya, then they all will hope that they can move on to a major airline and fly real airplanes. RJ's are for building time.

Bill, since you seem to have it all figured out, what exactly is the difference between JetBlue's E-190's and mainline-operated DC-9's, B-717's, and F-28's? I guess Northwest and American pilots only build time in their -9's and F-28's before they can move on to the bigger planes.

 

[Mr Hat]

Ya, then they all will hope that they can move on to a major airline and fly real airplanes. RJ's are for building time.

Right, until you and I stand up and tell management that we deserve normal 121 jet pay on those airplanes. Not deflated "regional" pay. The regionals were typically mom and pop companies, hence the low pay. Now these airplanes are being flown by the majors in one way or another but still garner mom and pop wages. We do it to ourselves by allowing it. One day, I am hoping that the Embraers will just become another fleet type at the majors, pay will be less than the other larger airplanes but in line with them at the same time, right now they aren't.

If your company had 737's and 777's would you say to yourself, I'm gonna fly the 737 til I can get on a REAL airplane? The pay is a big difference but they are both very capable airplanes.
The E145 is also a very capable airplane. The only real problems I have had with it consistantly is the radar. Other than that its stupid messages at the gate, CTRL+ALT+DEL and bada bing its fixed. You don't like it because its significantly underpaid but somewhere along the line, you probably contributed to that as most of us have.

I don't need to be the highest paid pilot out there, I would, however like to make an average of what my peers on other aircraft are making.

 

[Bill Nelson]

what exactly is the difference between JetBlue's E-190's and mainline-operated DC-9's, B-717's, and F-28's?

The difference is the guys who fly the 9's 717 and f28's are paid good wages and respected by their peers. Typically speaking, the RJ has served to only lower the bar for everyone and therefore it is not a welcome addition to commercial aviation. Unfortunetly, you guys at JB have built a reputation as arrogant jerks that walk around the terminals in blue shirts with hair on your face and disrespect the rest of the professionals in this industry. Now you guys are getting RJ's and don't have a union to negotiate a good rate to set the bar for this airplane. Thus, the rest of the industry will suffer. That is the difference between you guys flying the ERJ's 190 and the folks who fly the B717, F28, and Dc-9's.

 

[Blue Dude]

what exactly is the difference between JetBlue's E-190's and mainline-operated DC-9's, B-717's, and F-28's?

The difference is the guys who fly the 9's 717 and f28's are paid good wages and respected by their peers. Typically speaking, the RJ has served to only lower the bar for everyone and therefore it is not a welcome addition to commercial aviation. Unfortunetly, you guys at JB have built a reputation as arrogant jerks that walk around the terminals in blue shirts with hair on your face and disrespect the rest of the professionals in this industry. Now you guys are getting RJ's and don't have a union to negotiate a good rate to set the bar for this airplane. Thus, the rest of the industry will suffer. That is the difference between you guys flying the ERJ's 190 and the folks who fly the B717, F28, and Dc-9's.

I don't care about your opinion of JetBlue's pilots, their uniforms, or grooming standards. I asked what the difference is in the airplanes. The objective answer is that there isn't any. They have about the same size, range, mission and seating capacity. If anything, the E-190's are more capable, comfortable, and fuel efficient. That's not an "RJ", no matter who's manufacturing it.

Your argument is that if it doesn't pay as high as legacy airlines, then it's an RJ. Well, by that definition, the 747's at Polar and the 767's at North American are just da.mn big RJ's since they are paid less than we are. That's lunacy.

BTW, I'm not showing "disrespect the rest of the professionals in this industry" by pointing out that your argument is flawed, and that you seem only able to resort to personal attacks. Too bad, but the first person to resort to those methods is the automatic loser. Better luck next time.

I apologize to everyone else for beating a dead horse, but all I wanted was a clear definition. Whatever happened to civil discussion?

 

[Blue Dude]

I was hoping we'd have one payrate for all a/c on our property. It would sure go a long way in preventing the walls and divisions that inevitably form with different fleet types (how come the EMB guys are getting all the San Juan layovers now...why can't "we" get more productive trips, etc...) Not to mention the costs saved in training (seat locks can only do so much)

As it turns out, I agree with both of you guys, but I'm not sure it'll do much good to talk about it here. I sincerely hope that you wrote about this in the last Speak Up survey, where it'll have the most impact. Somebody had to say it, and the more the better.