JetBlue emergency, no NTSB report

[polaris746]

I'm new to this forum and I'm going to use this opportunity to ask a question that has been lingering in my mind for 4 months.
------
On Sunday, March 25, 2007 at 7:32 p.m., the JetBlue Embraer 190 I was on performed an emergency landing at BOS. Flight 1017 took off of BOS bound for JFK, and right as it was reaching cruising altitude the seatbelt sign illuminated and the captain came on the intercom.

"Ladies and gentleman, we have encountered a minor electrical problem and we will be returning to Boston. At this time, please give your crew members your undivided attention as they demonstrate emergency landing procedures."

That definitely got my attention, and pretty much everyone else on board as passengers began to gasp and shift about restlessly. The cabin filled with whispers and sounds of seatbelts clicking into place. It was no joke. Flight attendants had a ghastly look on their face as they tried to remain composed. They walked up and down the isles collecting high heels and any loose items.

When they began to demonstrate the brace position I knew something was seriously wrong. Hell, I should've known something was wrong when he said we're turning back. It was no "minor" electrical problem if it was worth the tens of thousands of dollars the airline would lose by turning around.

Since I was seated in the very first row and didn't have a seat to lean against, I was shown a different brace position where I clutch my knees. People were calling their loved ones on their cell phones and I tried to do the same, except I couldn't get any reception.

Looking out, I saw the Boston skyline. We were flying 2000-2500 AGL directly over densely populated Boston neighborhoods, and I found this highly unusual and began to fear the worst. I'm guessing we were lined up for 15R as that takes us over Boston and it's the longest runway at Logan. I had the airport in sight and knew we would make it, but I had no idea what kind of emergency this was.

I was looking out the window this entire time but on about about a 1/2 mile final, a voice cracked over the intercom and commanded, "Brace, brace, brace!"

As I said before, I was in the first row so I had to bend over entirely in my brace position, and could not see outside as the plane made a very firm landing. The ride was bumpy and the reversers made it worse. The brakes were heavily applied.

When we were told we were okay I looked out and saw us stopped in the middle of the runway surrounded by firetrucks and paramedics. I'm guessing, if the captain deemed it necessary for this much equipment to be awaiting us on arrival, the problem was fairly serious.

Soon after, we were towed back to the gate. I received a full refund but had to wait until next morning to get a flight to Chicago. I was pissed.
---------

I've been trying to figure out what the hell happend for 4 months. I've tried asking JetBlue, looking for a news story, researching NTSB, etc, but nothing. According to NTSB Part 830 shouldn't this have been reported?

If we had to be towed back to the gate, could it have been a problem with the landing gear? The wheels? Shouldn't I have the right to know what happend??

 

[say again]

No damage or injuries-no NTSB!!

 

[ExpWayVis31]

polaris,
Here is a question for you. If you had a "minor electrical" problem in your Cessna 172. Would you Declare an Emergency?

 

[328dude]

I was pissed.

Amagine what you would feel like being dead.

Where you hoping to be asked to come to the flight deck and save the day? I bet you were pissed.

 

[mannyaplus11]

Soon after, we were towed back to the gate. I received a full refund but had to wait until next morning to get a flight to Chicago. I was pissed


So, the Captain declares an emergency, you land safely and without a scratch, you get a full refund and have to wait a day... and you're PISSED????!!!!!
This is why this industry is falling apart. What more do you want?

 

[polaris746]

ok ok, guys calm down. i was pissed at the situation, not jetblue or the pilots. i missed an important meeting. it didn't mean to come out that way, blaming jetblue or anything. i would fly them again.

the reason i posted this was that i wanted to know if u guys heard anything, or knew of something tha thappend.

 

[polaris746]

polaris,
Here is a question for you. If you had a "minor electrical" problem in your Cessna 172. Would you Declare an Emergency?

I don't know. What defines "minor"? My landing light had faulty wiring and turned off while I was practicing night take offs and landings, that's a "minor electrical problem" to me and no, I wouldn't declare an emergency. What are minor electrical problems to airline pilots? If it was minor, why declare an emergency? Why not tell us what is really wrong? To keep the passengers at ease? Well, if you're telling us we're gonna be in a brace position upon landing, we arent gonna be at ease. Might as well tell us the truth.

 

[GogglesPisano]

No damage or injuries-no NTSB!!

Exactly. It probably did not meet NTSB830 criteria.

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cach...t%20830.ppt+ntsb+830&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us

 

[polaris746]

Exactly. It probably did not meet NTSB830 criteria.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070712X00919&key=1

In the above incident, no one got hurt, and there were no damages, but there was an NTSB report. I'm a newbie, so please help me out. Why is that reported and not this one?

 

[say again]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070712X00919&key=1

In the above incident, no one got hurt, and there were no damages, but there was an NTSB report. I'm a newbie, so please help me out. Why is that reported and not this one?

Federal regulations require operators to notify the NTSB immediately of aviation accidents and certain incidents. An incident is an occurrence other than an accident that affects or could affect the safety of operations.

If the one AC did not go around, then that would've affected the safety of the flight.

According to the CA of the 190, a minor electical problem did not deem the operation of the AC to become unsafe.

 

[GogglesPisano]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070712X00919&key=1

In the above incident, no one got hurt, and there were no damages, but there was an NTSB report. I'm a newbie, so please help me out. Why is that reported and not this one?

My guess is there was a loss of separation/near miss, and either or both airlines' procedures require their pilots to file a report. The airline then forwards a copy to the FAA and NTSB.

 

[wmuflyguy]

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070712X00919&key=1

In the above incident, no one got hurt, and there were no damages, but there was an NTSB report. I'm a newbie, so please help me out. Why is that reported and not this one?

There was a Pilot or Controller screw up in that situation that resulted in a loss of seperation and two aircraft almost collided. It was most likely reported by ATC to the NTSB and not by the airline.

Declared Emergencies rarely become NTSB and FAA investigations.

As for the brace position, who knows, that is CYA kinda thing.

 

[Blueline]

I don't know. What defines "minor"? My landing light had faulty wiring and turned off while I was practicing night take offs and landings, that's a "minor electrical problem" to me and no, I wouldn't declare an emergency. What are minor electrical problems to airline pilots? If it was minor, why declare an emergency? Why not tell us what is really wrong? To keep the passengers at ease? Well, if you're telling us we're gonna be in a brace position upon landing, we arent gonna be at ease. Might as well tell us the truth.

<begin speculation>

My guess would be a DC BUS 2 OFF message which would result in the nosewheel steering being inoperative as it is powered on DC BUS 2. They would use differential braking and rudder to steer until the airplance stopped, and would arrange to be towed to the gate.

It is a minor electrical issue. I would say that the Captain had your safety in mind by declaring an emergency and getting everyone's attention.

As for telling the truth, how's this:

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have just received a message from one of our computers up here saying that one of our DC Busses has turned off. I can't really say why this is happening, but it may be that there is a massive short circuit in the bus. This may be due to shorting, smoldering, and arcing wires, but it might not be. In any event, we are going to return to Boston for a landing. The landing should be uneventful, but because of our electrical issue, we won't have any nosewheel steering. When we touch down, we want you to take the brace position in case we depart from the runway out of control. Don't worry. We will be met upon landing by crash-fire-rescue. If we make a successful landing, we will be towed to the gate as we won't be able to steer. Did I mention earlier that we can't steer? You'll be able to tune into channel 24 to watch our approach and landing in Boston."

</end speculation>

I'd say that the Captain's intentions and message were delivered appropriately. You should thank him for making conservative, safe decisions and getting you back on the ground safely.

As for NTSB 830, DC BUS 2 OFF doesn't fit into note (i) which would require notification:

(i) In-flight failure of electrical systems which requires the sustained use of an emergency bus powered by a backup source such as a battery, auxiliary power unit, or air driven generator to retain flight control or essential instruments;

Any time that you declare an emergency, you'll be met by lots of lights even if you say that you don't require assistance other than an expedited landing.

I hope my speculation answers some of your questions.

 

[polaris746]

Thank for the responses, guys. I undersatnd better now.

 

[CKJET]

If you had a problem in the Cessna you fly you may or may not declare an emergency....Pilots call

The brace for impact is most likley a JB procedure for any emergency landing,

All the fire trucks is standard stuff, it's like the fire dept in a small town, some guy's BBQ catches a tree on fire and every fire truck in the town comes, same thing w/airports better to be safe then sorry.

NTSB requries aircraft damage or injuries to people, Runway and seperation problems are mostly reported by ATC..

Smoke in the cockpit will get a jet turmed around and the ground very fast. I know you did not say anything about smoke in the cockpit but if I were a betting man....

 

[whaleroast]

I can't believe you paid 10 dollars to FlightInfo to ask this question.

 

[polaris746]

I actually paid $10 to read and write in this thread about Palwaukee Flyers notorious owner Jim Kwasek, where I trained and got scammed $10,000 because I didn't know any better. You don't have to be a smartass just because I fly a Cessna and you're an ATP.

 

[ultrarunner]

Polaris, did you search the FAA ASRS or accident/incident database. At somepoint it'll show up somewhere if you REALLY need to know EXACTLY what happened. I'm sure the pilots filled out a NASA form, so it'll show up at some point.

As others have pointed out, whatever did happen didn't meet NTSB and unlike the FAA, if you don't meet their rules, they don't particularly care. The FAA on the other had is a paper-work-generating machine.

 

[polaris746]

Nothing on accident/incident database, but I found this thread on a.net
http://www.airliners.net/discussion...in/3326224/?searchid=3326224&s=1017#ID3326224

Apparently people were listening when it happend. Blueline was pretty much dead on. Nose wheel problem

 

[Crossky]

On Sunday, March 25, 2007 at 7:32 p.m., the JetBlue Embraer 190 I was on performed an emergency landing at BOS. Flight 1017 took off of BOS bound for JFK, and right as it was reaching cruising altitude the seatbelt sign illuminated and the captain came on the intercom.

"Ladies and gentleman, we have encountered a minor electrical problem and we will be returning to Boston. At this time, please give your crew members your undivided attention as they demonstrate emergency landing procedures."

I like JB, but this seems like an overreaction IMO. A 'minor electrical problem' shouldn't require an EMG LDG, desparate phone calls to loved ones, and brace brace brace! calls. Maybe your A/C didn't have nosewheel steering like the other poster theorized. Perhpas they should've told the pax that if that's the case.

An ORD ground crew misconnected the torque link on our CRJ one day, we could taxi though and on TO the torque link came apart, we were airborne with the nosewheel turned into a full castering shopping cart wheel. We really didn't have nosewheel steering. On the EMG LDG the tires tracked straight until 80 kts then the gear made lots of banging and noise. The E-190 nosewheels should still be aligned even with HYD failure correct JB guys?

 

[Crossky]

The E-190 nosewheels should still be aligned even with HYD failure correct JB guys?

I mean electric steering failure. Too many early shows. G'dnite.

 

[lowecur]

A 190 with electrical problems? In flight no less?... Impossible!

Jetblue will earn $25M tomorrow, and they will sell 5-10 more 320's and reinstate old delivery schedule for the 190s. Of course this is all a speculative wish.

imp:​

 

[say again]

Who really knows what the "minor electrical" problem was besides the crew!! They did a great job getting the plane back on the ground.
Crossky- not all planes are the same as the crj, so leave it at that. BTW- was that a 328 jet or prop u flew??

 

[samballs]

polaris,
Here is a question for you. If you had a "minor electrical" problem in your Cessna 172. Would you Declare an Emergency?

......

 

[samballs]

I actually paid $10 to read and write in this thread about Palwaukee Flyers notorious owner Jim Kwasek, where I trained and got scammed $10,000 because I didn't know any better. You don't have to be a smartass just because I fly a Cessna and you're an ATP.

Jim rocks! If you got your license there for ten grand you were doing something right. Did he let tango lick you while he fed you BS about how he was god.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Polaris, some of us once had a PP ticket. Others came out of the womb with their ATP. Sorry for the ignorance of some of my brothers. It was a good question.

 

[Flounder42]

Polaris, PM me if you want the non-speculative version of what happened on this flight.

It was a minor electrical problem (MAU 1A fail). No nosewheel steering, partial brakes, 2/3 flight spoilers. The vectors and altitudes for the approach weren't any different than a non emergency.

The decison to brace was out of an over abundance of caution and that was explained to the passengers over the PA and to expect to see the emergency vehicles (just like every other emergency landing) on the runway after the aircraft stopped.

 

[Precious]

I actually paid $10 to read and write in this thread about Palwaukee Flyers notorious owner Jim Kwasek, where I trained and got scammed $10,000 because I didn't know any better. You don't have to be a smartass just because I fly a Cessna and you're an ATP.

Based on your own account of your experience, you did not, in fact, "get scammed." You were treated very nicely according to your own post.

By your own account you had:
1. an acceptable experience
2. a superb instructor
who put you up for a checkride with the owner who on your checkride
3. he was really cool (your words)
4. Contrary to what many may think, Jim has been quite nice to me. He bought me a Subway sandwich once, simply because he was going to grab lunch and I happend to be in the same room as him. I like Tango the dog. He's well-behaved.
5. the owner refunded money to you no problem.

So, the question is why do you post that you were scammed, when in fact, you were not scammed. You were treated very nicely.
I've grown tired of reading posts on these forums of people dumping on other people when it suits them and their need to try to fit in... and here's a perfect example where 2 posts directly contradict themselves.