Jetblue EMB rates

[wndshr]

You're assuming that pay rates are the only union benefit. Firming up scheduling rules (how's THAT going at JBLU?), instituting a formal grievance process (again, how's THAT going?) offering legal and medical help, I could go on, but there are a lot of benefits to pooling resouces for events that only some with go through, but any COULD go through.

I might be naive...maybe others in the industry can add their experiences...but having been with many alpa carriers...my schedule has been more productive at b6 since day 1 off reserve...maybe other carriers are doing better than 6 hours a day?

 

[That Guy]

You're assuming that pay rates are the only union benefit. Firming up scheduling rules (how's THAT going at JBLU?), instituting a formal grievance process (again, how's THAT going?) offering legal and medical help, I could go on, but there are a lot of benefits to pooling resouces for events that only some with go through, but any COULD go through.

Funny, I compared notes with some friends who are at JBLU, and told them about some things that happened at my previous airline that had ALPA. They're doing better with scheduling and 'grievances' than we ever did with ALPA on our property. Of course, my previous carrier could have been much worse without the union, but if there isn't a need for one, why bother? Obviously, the JBLU pilots are happy without one so far.

For the most part, my friend's seem to think their relationship with management is a mutually agreeable and productive one, whereas ours (at my old ALPA carrier) was hostile and unproductive.

Most of my friends at JBLU have come from ALPA carriers, and every single one of them said they would never want ALPA representation, but something more along the lines of SWAPA, should it come to that.

To each his or her own, I guess.

-TG

 

[V2+10]

I find it humorous that the vast majority of folks that actually want ALPA at B6 don't even work there!! Share the misery I suppose.

V2

 

[RJ_Driver]

Well son with a whole 3 posts, having registered yourself within the last week, how many "good debates" on flightinfo have you been a part of lately ??

You can't honestly come on here, with 300 hours and a CFI and expect to be taken seriously. At least not by me. I suppose I could have just let it go but I thought it was just a little brash on your part. In fact I was somewhat offended by the fact that someone like yourself would have the nuts to say that ALPA obviously isn't working.

I can say for a fact that ALPA is working very well at my airline. Is it perfect, no, nothing ever is. But we've come a long way with ALPA in the last several years and I take offense to your ignorant statement.

BTW, have you ever walked a picket line, out in the cold, all the while trying to support a family that depends on your income ?? I still have boxes of picket signs in my basement from the last time I did.

Come back and tell the rest of us how it is when you actually know what you are talking about.

Get your private in a 75, have ya?
Shut it pal... everyone here has a voice...
EWR 737 F/O

 

[RJ_Driver]

MJG...
You're probably an a$$ in the cockpit too, not just the forums.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I'll make a prediction....ALPA will not be Jetblue's union. If anything, they'll end up with an in house union. I won't go as far as to say that it'll never happen, Maybe someday but not today.

Why is it that the only airline to do it right with respect to EMB's flying on the same list as the A320 is a non-union airline. Chain of events? ALPA dropped the ball and started this downward spiral when they allowed 145's and CL-65's to be flown at the regionals. Dumb move. Read that artical about "Pay to Play" in this months ALPA magazine.....Too little too late. ALPA will continue to fail until it gets itself AHEAD of managements tactic of pitting different pilot groups against eachother....right now they are about 5 years behind the times and have no effective planning on how to deal with the future. ALPA is what you make of it on the local level. My MEC is very good and I will follow them anywhere. National is a mess, they don't know what to do and they got their heads in the sand. ALPA came about because air-mail pilots were dying (safety) and because they were undercutting themselves, in fierce competition with eachother and generally degrading the profession in the process. Looks to me like we've come full circle.

Good post, Mr Hat . Spot on summation of ALPA National. Until they learn to become pro-active rather than re active,they will never be taken seriously by either management or the vast majority of the pilots they claim to represent."
PHXFLYR

 

[BluDevAv8r]

MJG...
You're probably an a$$ in the cockpit too, not just the forums.

Everyone here definitely has a voice but MJG is no "a$$," either in the cockpit or on here in my opinion. He's a great guy (frustrated perhaps but aren't we all?) and has worked hard for the XJT pilots...doing a lot of SPC work during our contract negotiations process. Perhaps he spoke his true mind about the 300 hour CFI but I can't say I completely disagree with him. It is easy to comment from the outside based on discussions with people and internet message boards but until you've "been there, done that," it is hard to fully appreciate the issues. 300 hour CFI's comments about conflicts of interest are flawed and all too common from many on here who are upset with their own local situation and place blame on the easiest target. ALPA isn't perfect but until people realize that it is a pilot-driven organization from the local level, people are always going to have misguided views on the issue and unrealistic expectations.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I might be naive...maybe others in the industry can add their experiences...but having been with many alpa carriers...my schedule has been more productive at b6 since day 1 off reserve...maybe other carriers are doing better than 6 hours a day?

Your schedule is very productive at JB by virtue of the kind of flying that you guys do in the 320. Most of it is long-haul transcons or NY-FL flying with a few shorter routes thrown in for good measure (but going away soon as the 190 gets implemented). When you average 13 hours per day per aircraft of utilization, pilot schedules HAVE to be productive...it is the only way to do it...it is great for the company and the pilot group.

What some were saying as far as scheduling rules aren't necessarily productivity enhancements but rather - protections against certain other issues. For example, can you guys be scheduled for a PC immediately following your vacation or do you need to be given a few days between your vacation and your sim slot? We built that provision into the XJT contract to allow some time to study since clearly none of us wants to be studying our manuals while on vacation in Cabo.

By the way, my schedule averages just over 6 hours per day at XJT...but I trip trade voraciously for productive trips and tend to do day trips and 2-day trips. If I only did 4-day trips, there is no way I could see 6 hours per day on average out of EWR.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I think he gets it just fine. Representing majors and their respective regional subsidiaries is a conflict of interest.

No, it really isn't...since the CAL MEC doesn't represent me...nor does the DAL MEC...nor does the NWA MEC. My own MEC at XJT represents me.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Woerth was so helpful and professional when he was trying to get the pot of gold that is the FedEx and CAL dues paying members. He suceeded in getting into your wallets. What he did was keep ALPA and its huge rent/cost structure solvent post 9/11 after his dues rolls got nuked. His pay has INCREASED. Has yours?

A350

His pay has increased? Can you please prove that? I'm not going to defend the guy's salary on here (because it is a lose/lose proposition for me) but I will say that his pay is based off of the highest paying positions on the various ALPA properties. Well, in case you were living in a box 6 feet under the past few years you would know that all network carriers have taken a haircut and de facto, so has DW's salary structure. Does he get other benefits and perks? Yep...that is his job. To be a politician. If you think his salary is high, go look up the head of the National Teachers Union. You will be amazed at what that educator makes per year.

-Neal