Jetblue and Vueling

[shadesofBS]

How did a Flight Attendant exchange program turn into a debate over who is going to fly A330's (which neither company owns or flys)? Maybe it both companies can learn from each other.

Dave Barger has a 7percent stake in the airline, good for him. Perhaps he is trying to make a little more money in this industry.

As for the 2000 hour pilots, very different training program and process as well as the other factors mentioned by the othe posters.

Because many of us have been whip-sawed to death in our careers and we don't care to have it happen again. Airbus 330's are the least of our worries if we end up with an alter-ego and the foreign ownership rules get thrown out by a Republican congress. After that you'll see a whole new round of "whose the lowest bidder."
...and please spare me the whole "trust in leadership" speech because I've heard it all before and the only place I've ever seen it play out is Southwest.
We may be the benificiaries of the same type of leadership but the vibe I've been getting at recurrent does not give me a warm and fuzzy.

 

[da90drivr]

Because many of us have been whip-sawed to death in our careers and we don't care to have it happen again. Airbus 330's are the least of our worries if we end up with an alter-ego and the foreign ownership rules get thrown out by a Republican congress. After that you'll see a whole new round of "whose the lowest bidder."
...and please spare me the whole "trust in leadership" speech because I've heard it all before and the only place I've ever seen it play out is Southwest.
We may be the benificiaries of the same type of leadership but the vibe I've been getting at recurrent does not give me a warm and fuzzy.

Ok, I'm curious now, what vibe have you been getting at recurrent?

 

[shadesofBS]

The vibe has been:
"pay and benefits are what they are, 190 pay is what it is, if you all decide you want to do something collectively about then that's your perogative."
and
"pilots who don't answer their phones and pilots who call in sick are the reason we have so many irops"
I won't provide names and exact quotes on this forum but I don't have to. There were 50 or 60 other pilots in the room each time I heard things of this nature and I'm not out to convince anyone of anything. Pilots are pretty observant people with very good memories.

 

[That Guy]

Just like there won't be a return on $100 million worth of HUD's, auxiliary fuel tanks, and 50 or so management pilots making $150,000 a year.

I have no idea what the deal is with management pilots, but I would think that they are necessary. From where I come from, they are a necessary evil, but necessary. Is $150,000 more than most A320 captains make in a year?

HUD's allow you guys to turn CAT I approaches into CAT II or III approaches, don't they? I know it's a huge additional cost, but when you guys are going places the competition can't go, there's a lot to be said for that. No CAT II or III equipment on the field...no problem. You Blue Dudes can cruise in there while other 121 operators can't even attempt the approach. Plus, once you've flown with a HUD, well...it's like crack for pilots.

I don't know about aux fuel tanks, but again, I would think that might open up tankering possibilities if fuel prices get out of hand again, and like they say, you can never have enough gas - unless you're on fire.

Of course, I could be way off base here, the HUD and aux fuel tanks, while difficult to justify in the short term, may have a huge effect on productivity and completion factor in the long run.

Of course, as an outsider, I could be talking completely out of my @$$, but I found it very interesting when I heard JetBlue was ordering those options on the E190.

Flame me if I deserve it.

 

[bluejuice787]

I have no idea what the deal is with management pilots, but I would think that they are necessary. From where I come from, they are a necessary evil, but necessary. Is $150,000 more than most A320 captains make in a year?

HUD's allow you guys to turn CAT I approaches into CAT II or III approaches, don't they? I know it's a huge additional cost, but when you guys are going places the competition can't go, there's a lot to be said for that. No CAT II or III equipment on the field...no problem. You Blue Dudes can cruise in there while other 121 operators can't even attempt the approach. Plus, once you've flown with a HUD, well...it's like crack for pilots.

I don't know about aux fuel tanks, but again, I would think that might open up tankering possibilities if fuel prices get out of hand again, and like they say, you can never have enough gas - unless you're on fire.

Of course, I could be way off base here, the HUD and aux fuel tanks, while difficult to justify in the short term, may have a huge effect on productivity and completion factor in the long run.

Of course, as an outsider, I could be talking completely out of my @$$, but I found it very interesting when I heard JetBlue was ordering those options on the E190.

Flame me if I deserve it.

Not sure about the mgmt pilot thing. I believe they pretty much earn their keep here...no real opinion on that topic.

HUDs...I'll admit I have never used one. I have been told that they are great. My concern is not if they work as published and are fun to use, it is simply are they cost effective. In other words are we really going to be able to go that many more places many more times than the competition? Is there any imperical evidence that suggests this? I would think to offset the cost it would have to be great...I don't know but I doubt it.

Aux fuel tanks...simply a mistake and we are correcting it.

 

[Counselair]

Why don't you ask them?

As long as no jetblue airplane is flown by other than jetblue pilots, who is compensated according to our contract and on the seniority list, then I really don't have a problem.

Not to start a tiff but how about Lonnie, (in the not too distant future Pete) and Billy W. to name a few... Europe to the US and Places down south.

C

 

[JBPA]

Not to start a tiff but how about Lonnie, (in the not too distant future Pete) and Billy W. to name a few... Europe to the US and Places down south.

C

I think you meant Lanny M. I think it's BS. We're going to start the mil charter soon (Guantanamo among other places) and I heard that those missions were going to be 'operationally assigned' and not for bid. Before the diehard Bluefolk dogpile me that's just what I heard.

 

[Dizel8]

Counselair,

check your pm.

D8

 

[8vATE]

Not to start a tiff but how about Lonnie, (in the not too distant future Pete) and Billy W. to name a few... Europe to the US and Places down south.

C

Wow..

this is a blast from the past..
Resurrected thread.


These flights are not "revenue" flights and are frequently "acceptance/test flights" requiring specially qualified pilots.

Its not unprecedented to have them flown by non seniority list pilots.
It probably a good tradeoff... Allowing our 60+ year old guys a job.

As far as the DOD charters... they should be open to the pilot group.
I would imagine though there is some concern about the special procedures flying in and out of G. Bay.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Wow..

this is a blast from the past..
Resurrected thread.


These flights are not "revenue" flights and are frequently "acceptance/test flights" requiring specially qualified pilots.

Its not unprecedented to have them flown by non seniority list pilots.
It probably a good tradeoff... Allowing our 60+ year old guys a job.

As far as the DOD charters... they should be open to the pilot group.
I would imagine though there is some concern about the special procedures flying in and out of G. Bay.

Those delivery flights are jetblue airways operations and should be flown by pilots on the JB sen list. We have many pilots on the sen list with much more AB experience than the retired guys. But it's not about experience, it's about being in the "Club". The money payed to those guys is just a perk that costs the line pilots, the profit-sharers, and shareholders. Besides, aren't all those guys doing the "extra" flying the ones with the $1 options?
If they are so experienced, make them instructors. At least one is a highly experienced and respected sim instructor.
As for those charters, you watch who gets those...
Those "special procedures" are no big deal, I've been there.