Jetblue A-320 to Land at ORD 1030AM CST

[Longhorn]

atcloser...

Thanks for the great input. I have been based there for a while now and its very noticable. I am going to BOS next month but still go through JFK quite a bit. I know its busy there as well but hopefully things will get better at JFK

 

[General Lee]

I gotta jump in here. I worked that JBU flight out of JFK while working JFK depature control today. I noticed ORD on the flight strip, and figured it was the inagural flight, but didnt say anthing because of other priorities at the time. Congrats to JBU.

Anyway, I'm a controller at NY TRACON in the JFK sector, and I must say, that our volume is going up and and up and up. First it was JBU A320's, then lots of RJ's, then E190's from JBU, then a host of new Intl carriers, then the rise and fall of Song, now the Dash 8s. I heard that we were holding at CAMRN and LENDY (for those of you who know the airspace) at 8am the last few mornings due to volume. I have been working in the sector for 7+ years and have NEVER seen us holding at 8am, unless we were on ILS 13L or the weather was really really crappy. We held those days for VOLUME, on a clear and a million day nonetheless. For those of you who fly into JFK a lot, you might expect holding around 3pm or 6-8pm, but never on a day shift! I can also remember working midnight shifts and early day shifts (530-130p), and working all the redeye's over LENDY between 4-7am, then it was dead until noon when the ROBER traffic showed up. These days, at 7am, we are pumping traffic. Throw in a wrench such a any kind of wind or bad weather, or JFK tower telling us to stay off the overflow runway (22R, 4L, and 31L), and we are at capacity quick.

Just some thoughts from a controller as to the delays I think JFK is going to start to see in the near future due to sheer volume. Remember people, you throw a few heavys into the mix at JFK, and the finals start getting real stretched out...

You guys do a really good job. Airlines with primary hubs in the NE will have to deal with this saturation problem from now on. Many newcomers will have to look out West for space to grow. JB may look to STL for that reason. I still think COS could be used too by someone.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[elag777]

True dat. Which way are you guys heading?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Firmly treading water I think, and I hope DAL continues the better trending.

 

[LandGreen]

Looks like you have been sending back planes and mirroring a lot we have been going through during BK. I hope you guys don't get to where we were, which could happen. Your own management is under scrutiny by investors and analysts too. We are getting better though, and are starting to post some modest profits, which will hopefully grow. Also, we have announced more INTL destinations and larger planes (777LRs), so things seem to be getting better. Thanks for your concern. Still, it sounds like a coverup that you do not want to get out. Let's hope JB shows the world the test results, including the transcons with a day sleep and allnighter later that day. Can't wait.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

I would be interested to know Whitehurst (?) plan with regards to a 50% split between domestic and international revenue. What happened to international revenue after 9-11? Does he feel comfortable leveraging half the company's revenue in this geopolitical climate? Just curious...

 

[rayford steele]

Canyonblue,
Can you believe we're going to ORD? I love Orlando, I can't wait to go see Mickey!

 

[DIAMONDDD]

ATCLoser

Thanks for your information. I would imagine after reading this forum and seeing the garbage on display by "professional pilots" day in and day out here that your impression of pilots is not favorable.

 

[JetFumes]

Just a little info for the folks who seem content debating without any info at all. From what I hear, the transcon turns were an idea for day flying only, yep, thats right, sun up flying only, not night turns. I know, I know, sets a bad precedent, begins the slippery slope downwards in the perpetual race to the bottom, what if there was an emergency, and so on........If you do six legs of flying, or even five for about eight hours of flying during a fourteen hour duty day, is that more or less tiring than 2 legs for 10.5 hours of flying in 12.5 hours of duty? One is perfectly legal, and carriers do this all of the time, and nobody grows a sac and does something about it. The other is an experiment only, under supplemental rules (that means legal children), and all hell breaks loose on these boards. Where were all of you before?????

 

[General Lee]

General,

I would be interested to know Whitehurst (?) plan with regards to a 50% split between domestic and international revenue. What happened to international revenue after 9-11? Does he feel comfortable leveraging half the company's revenue in this geopolitical climate? Just curious...

I don't think it will go 50/50. We are finding that INTL cities don't have Airtran and Jetblue, which means we can set the price. With a booming economy and a more global economy, the need to travel grows. Our new Nonstop from JFK to Mumbai will be huge, since we will be the first to start it, and when Air India starts their service nonstop early next year---our service will make it the superior choice to business travelers who don't care about price. (kinda like our JFK-Moscow service, up against Aeroflot) We are finding new city pairs like that all the time, and we have had a large number of un tapped widebodies we were using to add too many seats to MCO and TPA from ATL. Those planes will now go INTL. Could a global war or terrorist attack affect our INTL position? Sure. It would hurt a lot of airlines. Luckily we are expanding outward to different areas, not just one area. We just announced new nonstop service from ATL to Seoul, and ATL to Dubai. Different directions. We also start ATL-Dakar-Johannesburg in December, along with JFK to Accra. We hope to get ATL-Beijing before the 2008 olympics. The cargo on some of those routes pays for the gas and more.

As far as domestic flying, we should be ording about 25 120 seaters soon, and possibly some 100 seaters for mainline. The MD88s/Md90s won't be leaving until 2011 at the earliest, and the 757s will slowly leave and may be all gone within 10 years. We are getting more 738s too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Just a little info for the folks who seem content debating without any info at all. From what I hear, the transcon turns were an idea for day flying only, yep, thats right, sun up flying only, not night turns. I know, I know, sets a bad precedent, begins the slippery slope downwards in the perpetual race to the bottom, what if there was an emergency, and so on........If you do six legs of flying, or even five for about eight hours of flying during a fourteen hour duty day, is that more or less tiring than 2 legs for 10.5 hours of flying in 12.5 hours of duty? One is perfectly legal, and carriers do this all of the time, and nobody grows a sac and does something about it. The other is an experiment only, under supplemental rules (that means legal children), and all hell breaks loose on these boards. Where were all of you before?????

Doesn't it get dark in NY at about 430-5pm in the Winter?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Thanks for your information. I would imagine after reading this forum and seeing the garbage on display by "professional pilots" day in and day out here that your impression of pilots is not favorable.

Thank gawd all ATC controllers are extremely professional, all of the time.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atcloser]

Thanks for your information. I would imagine after reading this forum and seeing the garbage on display by "professional pilots" day in and day out here that your impression of pilots is not favorable.

nah, controllers have web-boards too, and i have seen this stuff elsewhere. the pilots i deal with at JFK at least are always very professional. it really is a pleasure to work with all of you who fly in and out of the NY area.

 

[elag777]

nah, controllers have web-boards too, and i have seen this stuff elsewhere. the pilots i deal with at JFK at least are always very professional. it really is a pleasure to work with all of you who fly in and out of the NY area.

B6 Rocks!

 

[Spectre]

I just watched the CNBC coverage (1225 EST) The first question asked by Phil Lebeau was not about ORD service, guess what he asked about............................

Neeleman's response. "Certainly if we had to do it again we would have asked for headquarters approval"

The next was about dirty cabins.

CNBC obviously caught him off guard. DN was stuck standing in the rain, while he snapped his gum. You could tel he frustrated not to get his message about new service across.

Hope the news keeps digging for trash. The free publicity is great! JBLU stock up 20% in one week!

 

[Spectre]

Sure, your stock also went up when you announced slowing growth. Seems like you can't sustain that huge growth you used to have. Selling planes, slowing deliveries, good for you guys. SWF should be fun with Airtran there, and ORD will smack you around like a bi-atch. Enjoy that. Your on-time performance, which already is in the toilet due to JFK and our numerous Dash 8s in your way, will slide even more. Good times.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Like JB is not used to delays at BOS, JFK, EWR, LGA? Yeah, those Dash 8s fly around empty and their pilots can't tell the difference between an E190 and A320. What happened to that great SONG service? Now Delta is putting those same passengers on Dash 8s? What, no TVs and I have to listen to those props too? Great!

 

[General Lee]

Like JB is not used to delays at BOS, JFK, EWR, LGA? Yeah, those Dash 8s fly around empty and their pilots can't tell the difference between an E190 and A320. What happened to that great SONG service? Now Delta is putting those same passengers on Dash 8s? What, no TVs and I have to listen to those props too? Great!

Are you sure about that? Your major hub operations is at a standstill around 6pm every night. And, most people have never seen an E190, and it probably looks the same as an A320 at night when you are number 40 in line to takeoff behind 24 heavies and 15 RJs. Where did that great Song service go? IT beat you guys in several polls (Reader's Digest to name one), and now it is spread out to try to help our mainline and the old bags there. But, those Song planes now compete with FIRST CLASS on transcons, which also includes live TV (Dish Network) and bigger seats. That beats your service hands down, and we make money off of it. Our best customers now get first class again, and Dish Network live TV. And the pax on those Dash 8s come from cities we didn't serve before from JFK (ALB, PVD, BDL), and they now are connected to the world. Wake up from your 11 hour turn old man! (your POI says you can actually do one more leg to JAX! Go for it stud)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Nado]

Yeah, Delta's major hub, the ATL has no problems with delays now does it.

Your better than that last post general. How about "yeah our old product needed improvement, so we we stole, I mean borrowed, I mean used as much as we could from Jetblue, and called it Song." Give credit where credit is due with the Live TV idea.

Shouldn't you be calling for more paycuts through your union? You voted to lower the bar on that last vote didn't you? You get a little heat from that?

At least JB is addressing the fatigue issue. Clearly there is room for improvement there, I keep reading about accidents where pilots were fatigued, yet totally legal. I guess it is resistance to change, or less about safety, more about protecting union jobs.

Two things, is ALPA doing anything about this, I would like to read it? And the main champion of this project was a lifelong Delta pilot, D Bushy. Just a data point.

Also, just like when you read about a mishap in the paper, you don't go making up your mind after reading it, the deliberate person will wait until the full story is out there. Me thinks there is more than the WSJ report, maybe, just maybe.

Just when I was starting to like what you were writing.

 

[elag777]

Are you sure about that? Your major hub operations is at a standstill around 6pm every night. And, most people have never seen an E190, and it probably looks the same as an A320 at night when you are number 40 in line to takeoff behind 24 heavies and 15 RJs. Where did that great Song service go? IT beat you guys in several polls (Reader's Digest to name one), and now it is spread out to try to help our mainline and the old bags there. But, those Song planes now compete with FIRST CLASS on transcons, which also includes live TV (Dish Network) and bigger seats. That beats your service hands down, and we make money off of it. Our best customers now get first class again, and Dish Network live TV. And the pax on those Dash 8s come from cities we didn't serve before from JFK (ALB, PVD, BDL), and they now are connected to the world. Wake up from your 11 hour turn old man! (your POI says you can actually do one more leg to JAX! Go for it stud)

Bye Bye--General Lee

I hear Delta is going to try song again as they can't repaint the 75's yet. Changing the "S" for a "B" (hand painted though) or some black speed tape, and Bob's your uncle. New call sign of Delta smoke a "Bong". At least y'all get there happy and with the munchies!
imp:

 

[GogglesPisano]

You voted to lower the bar on that last vote didn't you? You get a little heat from that?

.

How exactly did Delta "lower the bar" with their latest contract?

 

[EAP]

As usual,,General Lee can't help bash B6...I could say about a million things about UAL ,but I don't. Try to say something positive for a change General.

Observation. Doesn't the General work for Mama Della?

Another thing, countless B6 guys had a fricken field day with the "legacy" guys for the last five years. Turnabout get's a hall pass? I don't think so.

Amazing.

 

[Nado]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=80115&highlight=delta+contract

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Observation. Doesn't the General work for Mama Della?

Another thing, countless B6 guys had a fricken field day with the "legacy" guys for the last five years. Turnabout get's a hall pass? I don't think so.

Amazing.

And countless DAL guys have had fricken field days with JB since day one. A handful of guys on both sides bashing each other. If it was not here, it would be somewhere else. So? If I see the General or any DAL guys in the terminal I smile and say hello. Most return the gesture, some don't. I am sure it happens with some of our guys also. When I ask for a J/S either to work or more importantly, home, almost everyone to a tee has been nothing but accomodating and cordial.
Everyone has whiners and complainers in house. No different than anywhere else.

 

[SoCentralRain]

Yo EAP:

That is the finest avatar on here. Long live the CV-990! Long live Modern Air!

Heh.

SCR

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Observation. Doesn't the General work for Mama Della?

Another thing, countless B6 guys had a fricken field day with the "legacy" guys for the last five years. Turnabout get's a hall pass? I don't think so.

Amazing.

These are some of the angriest and biased posts I have ever read from the General. I heard he is dating 32LT10 -- maybe he is letting him use his logon.

 

[HomerJ]

Let Delta add as many rjs and tprops in JFK as they'd like. The more DL customers that get to experience that feeder operation, the more customers we'll eventually gain at T6. 40 or 50 in line for takeoff? I'd much rather be watching tv or listening to xm than have a prop singing in my ear. Your management thinks they're putting a hurting on our on-time, all they're doing is driving customers away. DL should have learned from AA a long time ago. Build a fort around your hub, protect that with all you've got, and don't try to fight the battle on too many fronts. The future of JFK will be interesting to say the least...

 

[JBFlyer]

These are some of the angriest and biased posts I have ever read from the General. I heard he is dating 32LT10 -- maybe he is letting him use his logon.

This is nothing new, just the General getting back to his old self again. He was posting like this before Delta's bankruptcy, but mellowed out when good ole Delta started struggling. Now that things are a bit better (and not that there's anything wrong with that), he's ramping-up his old ways. Sit back and enjoy it....he provides great entertainment, if nothing else.