Jetblue 190 Question

[jetblue320]

Where do they find you guys?
The E-190 payscale is pathetic. Guys that get locked in to that 190 will be screwed. You can make more money flying an RJ. Next thing you know Nerlemann will be talking pay cuts because of the "ultra competetive environment" and you guys will be bending over like Mesa and you'll probably like it. That's the strange part. Nerleman is not much different than Lorenzo. He just gives you a bottle of wine afterwards. The difference is Lorenzo went to existing companies and got the employees to take pay cuts. Nerleman started JB from scratch so he can find dupes willing to work at bargain basement wages. Watch wait and see. JB A-320 growth will mysteriously slow up while 190's show up everywhere.

A while back you wanted an exemption from the 8 hour flying in 24 rule. What else will you do to damage this industry? JetBlue is poison. No way in hell I'd even think about putting in an app.

You're going to be thinking a lot differently about your company 10 years from now. Mark my words.

I don't need to mark your words. In 10 years, JB will be in my past and I will be enjoying life with my toe in the sand and a margarita in hand. If Jetblue is what you consider "poison" then great, don't apply. If it is not your cup of Joe, then so be it. What I want to know is if you are so negative about Jetblue and our CEO (and it's Neeleman BTW) why do you even waste your time posting about it? If you are going to take that "JB has screwed the industry" route, give it up Man. I have been in this business 27 years (which I would guess is longer than you) and it was screwed up in many ways long before February 2000.

And not that I owe you an explanation, but if I am being "duped" how come my W2 is north of 200k a year (and that's without Profit Sharing, 401k, ESPP, etc)

Try not to be so bitter, you'll live longer.

Have a good one.

 

[jetblue320]

I am not bashing B6

Neeleman is in his mid 40's. Let's say that he is approx 50 when his contract expires. If his curret 5% is worth approx $120 mil what do you think it will be worth in 5 years?

What I am saying is, if I was 50 years old with $150+ million. I would retire. What would you do?

Give me the reasons why you think that he will hang around? I know I wouldn't. Would you?

Again I am not bashing, just being realistic.

I'll try to answer this for you. I since have discovered, if the book Flying High is correct (and there were a few mistakes in it) he actually owns about 12%, but that's not the point. He told me directly a few months back during a conversation that he had some $90 million. If you add in the stock he has, I would guess that all totaled it would be, maybe $300 million if he went out. The dollar figure is not the point. He has said many times before that Jetblue is his passion, not his job. You said it yourself when you referenced Morris and Westjet and Open Skies and said he sold them all. Well, the fact is all three were joint ventures and not his all to his own. True, he was the mastermind and creator but I know this guy and he's not in it for the credit or the ownership. He is not a typical, money-hungry, anything for the dollar kinda guy. If you choose not to believe that, that's cool because it really doesn't affect you anyway, at least not directly. Trust me when I tell you that David will be around for quite some time. He's too figetity (sp) to do anything else. He is fueled by the everyday hustle bustle of this business. If I were to speculate, I would guess that he will fulfill the next 5 year agreement and probably one more 5 year term.

Personally, I am more worried about losing Dave Barger after his next 5 year term is up. He is the real General, Neeleman is just an Ambassador.

And to answer your other question, no, I would not hang around if I was him. Shoot, I plan on being retired by 2011 (and no I won't be 60) and my dollar figure goal is not even in the same league! But, that's me.

Thanks for your insight, really.

C yaaa

 

[jetblue320]

With a 150+ million and being 50 years old, I would start to have a series of wives that were taller, younger and blonder than the previous. That would insure having to raise more capital for my ventures! Gotta go. My short blonde wife just woke up!

Freddie,

I knew if you looked long enough you would find a Avatar picture to match your tagline. Nice going Ace! Oh, and keep up the good work!!

 

[wndshr]

sounds like someone got canned from phase 1!!!!

Where do they find you guys?
The E-190 payscale is pathetic. Guys that get locked in to that 190 will be screwed. You can make more money flying an RJ. Next thing you know Nerlemann will be talking pay cuts because of the "ultra competetive environment" and you guys will be bending over like Mesa and you'll probably like it. That's the strange part. Nerleman is not much different than Lorenzo. He just gives you a bottle of wine afterwards. The difference is Lorenzo went to existing companies and got the employees to take pay cuts. Nerleman started JB from scratch so he can find dupes willing to work at bargain basement wages. Watch wait and see. JB A-320 growth will mysteriously slow up while 190's show up everywhere.

A while back you wanted an exemption from the 8 hour flying in 24 rule. What else will you do to damage this industry? JetBlue is poison. No way in hell I'd even think about putting in an app.





You're going to be thinking a lot differently about your company 10 years from now. Mark my words.

sounds like someone pissed in your cheerios...hope it wasn't recruitment!

 

[jetblue320]

sounds like someone pissed in your cheerios...hope it wasn't recruitment!

I was thinking the same thing myself but I never kick someone when they are down, just when they are not looking. And what a shame too if it what you think is true. He would have been such a great guy to have at JB, I mean, with that warm and bubbly attitude.



C yaaaa

(Dog gone it, I can't get the cryin' smiley to work! Oh well)

 

[embdrvr]

Actually i've never applied at JetBlue mainly because my sights were set on majors with more domiciles and I don't want to move to the east coast. I've done my share of commuting and I don't intend to be a commuter again. Then 9/11 hit and that kind of messed up my plan to going to a specific major. Yep 27 years has my 15 or so years in the industry beat so WTF do I know.

The problem with you blue koolaid drinkers is that you operate in a void. It's like you're the only airline in the world. Back in the early stages of ALPA when piloting was a somewhat hazardous protection our predecessors fought long and hard for things like the 8 hour flying time restriction. Then you guys comes along and says, "hey you know what, we can make our schedule a bit better by seeking a variance to that rule." So F__k everyone else, let's see what we can get done.

Now you roll out the most pathetic payscale this side of Mesa. Now I don't blame the pilots at B6 because you're non-union AND you've signed your future away with that 5 year contract that was on your desk the first day of ground school. So Neeleman (I like referring him to by other names like Needleman or Nerleman) can do whatever he wants.

Do we hear a roar of collective outrage from B6 pilots about this E-190 scale? No of course not. Because they're selfish and they're already in the Airbus and won't have to worry about working for sub-RJ wages. I suppose if Neeleman wanted the new hires to PFT you'd probably go along with that also. So this upstart airline that is making tons of money introduces a B-scale. Nobody in the pilot group raises an eyebrow.

I just hope when Jetblue is sold in a few years (maybe more) that you get what you deserve for a new owner.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Take your Prosac. You will feel better in an hour or so. I need some more ice in my Blue Kool-Aid. Ta, Ta!

 

[jetblue320]

Actually i've never applied at JetBlue mainly because my sights were set on majors with more domiciles and I don't want to move to the east coast. I've done my share of commuting and I don't intend to be a commuter again. Then 9/11 hit and that kind of messed up my plan to going to a specific major. Yep 27 years has my 15 or so years in the industry beat so WTF do I know.

The problem with you blue koolaid drinkers is that you operate in a void. It's like you're the only airline in the world. Back in the early stages of ALPA when piloting was a somewhat hazardous protection our predecessors fought long and hard for things like the 8 hour flying time restriction. Then you schmucks comes along and says, "hey you know what, we can make our schedule a bit better by seeking a variance to that rule." So F__k everyone else, let's see what we can get done.

Now you roll out the most pathetic payscale this side of Mesa. Now I don't blame the pilots at B6 because you're non-union AND you've signed your future away with that 5 year contract that was on your desk the first day of ground school. So Neeleman (I like referring him to by other names like Needleman or Nerleman) can do whatever he wants.

Do we hear a roar of collective outrage from B6 pilots about this E-190 scale? No of course not. Because they're selfish and they're already in the Airbus and won't have to worry about working for sub-RJ wages. I suppose if Neeleman wanted the new hires to PFT you'd probably go along with that also. So this upstart airline that is making tons of money introduces a B-scale. Nobody in the pilot group raises an eyebrow.

I just hope when Jetblue is sold in a few years (maybe more) that you get what you deserve for a new owner.

First off, I never said that because I have been doing this 12 years more than you that you don't know WTF about anything. More importantly, calling us schmucks only makes you look immature and if you are attempting to rattle me by name calling, give up, I don't rattle that easy if at all. Secondly, I am not sure why you are upset about us trying to change the 8 hour rule. It hasn't happened. The EMB190 rates haven't happened yet. And as far as no one at JB being vocal about these rates, I guess you missed (or ignored) about half of the 300 some odd posts on that very subject just a week or so back. We are not at all happy about it but not for the same reason that you are I suppose. We are worried about JB and not how it effects the industry. Is that selfish, heck yea if you don't work for JB. It is parallel to how much say, ALPA or APA or pick one is doing for JB. Get a grip man.

I suppose you are bitter because your dreams are not being realized and of course, it's ALL JB's fault. Hey, I see from your profile that you were Army. Aviator type? Well, me too, years ago and I too had dreams of working for a "major". Well, that was in the era of "the big pilot shortage" which somehow never materalized, at least not for me anyway. The shortage was there, I just missed the boat. It sucked, and I was bitter for a long time. I flew for a few cargo and charter outfits and then for another cargo outfit for 12 years with their finger up my butt. Then the finger turned into a fist at the end and I ended up at JB. Certainly a breath of fresh air and for me, a savior. I don't expect you to understand or even care but what you could try to do is not blame your misfortune on us.

Let's just agree that we disagree and leave it at that. You live in your house and I'll live in mine. And if you feel that my property line invades yours, hire an attorney. Bashing us and calling us names on this board may make you feel good, but we aren't going away. Not in your or my career time anyway. Someone told me (it might have been you, I don't remember) that I needed a reality check. They are the one who needs to get a check!

I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for, really.

C yaaa

 

[turn&pull]

Sure sound rattled...

 

[Flying Freddie]

Not rattled. I hope you guys never have to come up the way jetblue320 and I did. I have been at 17 Part 121 airlines in 34 years. You just get tired of folks berating aviation and how we are bringing down the aviation world without a union. I have been Teamsters and ALPA many times. I have paid a lot of dues only to find out that I should have taken the dues and placed them on black 13. Gotta get back to my Blue Kool-Aid before the ice melts.