Jetblue 190 Question

[hopeful]

ExpressJet, Look it up, it IS a major airline.Good luck convincing your passengers of that. You guys are the commuter for Continental Airlines. "Man I hate flying on these puddle jumpers. I wish Continental would put 'real' airplanes on these routes." Ever Heard That! I have!

 

[GuppyPuppy]

As a Regional Cpt/Check-airman there is no way I would take a job at JB only to take a 40k pay cut and then upgrade to the 190 and make less than I am making right now. With those pay rates you better start shopping for pilots at Perdue.

...or at least a place where the pilots can actually spell Purdue!

GP

 

[localizer11]

Could this be the scenario? JB mgt needs to give Wall Steet good news in the wake of the lower profit margins / high fuel costs reports. So they set the E190 payrates low initially with the intention of slowly and quietly raising them later.

My apologies if this idea has already been posted.

 

[jetblue320]

What did Neeleman do with Morris?
What did Neeleman do with WestJet?
What about the computer reservation system?
Has he EVER stood by anything that he has started?
His track record speaks for itself.

5% of JBLU's current market cap is still $120,000,000. 00
Not a bad profit for 5 years worth of work. Now I know that he just signed an extension, he's contracted all the way out to 2008 or 2009. That's another 5 years, my guess is that's when he says Adios. By year 10, B6 will no longer be a start up and will start to feel some of the pain that al the other airlines feel.

I read Nuts too talk about kool Aid

Morris=Sold (he was a co-founder)
Westjet=Left/Quit (he was more or less a Consultant)
Open Skies=Sold (he was a co-founder, and JB uses it as well as Westjet and Airtran and a few others)
And yes, he stands by Jetblue, very strongly I might add. He doesn't need the money for selling out JB, he already has more than 120 million anyway. Like I said in my previous post, I have met (and know quite well FYI) the man and he's not in this for the money. And if you read Nuts "too" I will assume you read Flying High. Your take on it is your opinion and you are entitled to that. I just happen to think you are wrong, that's all. If you end up being right, I am happy for you. That would make me wrong, and guess what, that's OK too. Been there before and I am sure I will be there again. But one thing that ALL of you (not just you G4G5) don't understand is that if Jetblue went away tomorrow, I would still be happy with what we have accomplished and with the money I have made so far. That doesn't mean that I don't care about the future, it just means I am happy with the present and past and have no plans to be paranoid about the future. In other words, when will you Jetblue bashers realize that you can't rattle us?

C yaaa

 

[embdrvr]

I have met (and know quite well FYI) the man and he's not in this for the money.

Somebody needs a drug test.


On the recruiting issue I predict JB will have no problem hiring from the ranks at Mesa. They are well qualified. After all they are quite adept at grabbing their ankles and staring at the floor while ...........

Well you get my drift.

 

[jetblue320]

Somebody needs a drug test.


On the recruiting issue I predict JB will have no problem hiring from the ranks at Mesa. They are well qualified. After all they are quite adept at grabbing their ankles and staring at the floor while ...........

Well you get my drift.

Well, actually no I don't. If you like taking it up the rear, stay where you are. I am sure there will be many of the 10000 applicants that will be chomping at the bit to start class at JB. I have only heard of 2 or 3 (at this forum anyway) that are no longer interested. I think maybe YOU need a drug test.

C yaaa

 

[embdrvr]

Where do they find you guys?
The E-190 payscale is pathetic. Guys that get locked in to that 190 will be screwed. You can make more money flying an RJ. Next thing you know Nerlemann will be talking pay cuts because of the "ultra competetive environment" and you guys will be bending over like Mesa and you'll probably like it. That's the strange part. Nerleman is not much different than Lorenzo. He just gives you a bottle of wine afterwards. The difference is Lorenzo went to existing companies and got the employees to take pay cuts. Nerleman started JB from scratch so he can find dupes willing to work at bargain basement wages. Watch wait and see. JB A-320 growth will mysteriously slow up while 190's show up everywhere.

A while back you wanted an exemption from the 8 hour flying in 24 rule. What else will you do to damage this industry? JetBlue is poison. No way in hell I'd even think about putting in an app.

You're going to be thinking a lot differently about your company 10 years from now. Mark my words.

 

[G4G5]

Morris=Sold (he was a co-founder)
Westjet=Left/Quit (he was more or less a Consultant)
Open Skies=Sold (he was a co-founder, and JB uses it as well as Westjet and Airtran and a few others)
And yes, he stands by Jetblue, very strongly I might add. He doesn't need the money for selling out JB, he already has more than 120 million anyway. Like I said in my previous post, I have met (and know quite well FYI) the man and he's not in this for the money. And if you read Nuts "too" I will assume you read Flying High. Your take on it is your opinion and you are entitled to that. I just happen to think you are wrong, that's all. If you end up being right, I am happy for you. That would make me wrong, and guess what, that's OK too. Been there before and I am sure I will be there again. But one thing that ALL of you (not just you G4G5) don't understand is that if Jetblue went away tomorrow, I would still be happy with what we have accomplished and with the money I have made so far. That doesn't mean that I don't care about the future, it just means I am happy with the present and past and have no plans to be paranoid about the future. In other words, when will you Jetblue bashers realize that you can't rattle us?

C yaaa

I am not bashing B6

Neeleman is in his mid 40's. Let's say that he is approx 50 when his contract expires. If his curret 5% is worth approx $120 mil what do you think it will be worth in 5 years?

What I am saying is, if I was 50 years old with $150+ million. I would retire. What would you do?

By that point B6 will no longer be a start up and it's start up advantage will be starting to fade. The stock price will have founds it's target, no more growth (see LUV). The current Legacy vs LCC mess will have sorted itself out, by that point the water will have seeked it's own level (no more CH11 carriers to attack, the survivors will be paying the same wages).

Market share will be extremely difficult to increase, the carriers that survive will be in a much better place finaicially then B6's current prey. Upgrades won't be coming nearly as fast and sooner or later the music will stop and someone will be left in the 190 FO seat. Labor problems will just be starting. Ticket agents, FA's and even pilots will want the same pay as their counter parts. 10+ year old A320's, with 10+ year old IFE's, costs will definatly be up. The CSM's will be the same as everyone elses. The B6 start up advantage will be gone and they will be just like every other airline.

The fun of running the airline will be over, I have met Neeleman and you say you know him. Is this the type of stuff that he will enjoy? This is reality eventually everything I mentioned will happen. History has proven this.

Give me the reasons why you think that he will hang around? I know I wouldn't. Would you?

Again I am not bashing, just being realistic.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

The competitive environment right now allows for an $83 round trip ticket on AA, UAL, ATA from ORD/MDW to MCO... So, with that in mind, who's making money on that? I think JBLU has the right model in place to ride out bad times and succeed while the going is good. The 190 is over a year away and believe me the guys who choose the plane in the beginning will be making more in the long run after upgrading within 6 months than the guys choosing the Bus. By the time the F/Os on the 190 get stuck there for 2+ years, there will be an increase in their payscale-- gee, just like what happened here a few years back with the Bus. I'd rather be here riding out the storm in the black quarter after quarter than trying to redesign the way of doing business after losing gobs of money and wondering what the heck I'm gonna lose next from the impending cuts that you know are coming!

 

[Flying Freddie]

What I am saying is, if I was 50 years old with $150+ million. I would retire. What would you do?

With a 150+ million and being 50 years old, I would start to have a series of wives that were taller, younger and blonder than the previous. That would insure having to raise more capital for my ventures! Gotta go. My short blonde wife just woke up!

 

[jetblue320]

Where do they find you guys?
The E-190 payscale is pathetic. Guys that get locked in to that 190 will be screwed. You can make more money flying an RJ. Next thing you know Nerlemann will be talking pay cuts because of the "ultra competetive environment" and you guys will be bending over like Mesa and you'll probably like it. That's the strange part. Nerleman is not much different than Lorenzo. He just gives you a bottle of wine afterwards. The difference is Lorenzo went to existing companies and got the employees to take pay cuts. Nerleman started JB from scratch so he can find dupes willing to work at bargain basement wages. Watch wait and see. JB A-320 growth will mysteriously slow up while 190's show up everywhere.

A while back you wanted an exemption from the 8 hour flying in 24 rule. What else will you do to damage this industry? JetBlue is poison. No way in hell I'd even think about putting in an app.

You're going to be thinking a lot differently about your company 10 years from now. Mark my words.

I don't need to mark your words. In 10 years, JB will be in my past and I will be enjoying life with my toe in the sand and a margarita in hand. If Jetblue is what you consider "poison" then great, don't apply. If it is not your cup of Joe, then so be it. What I want to know is if you are so negative about Jetblue and our CEO (and it's Neeleman BTW) why do you even waste your time posting about it? If you are going to take that "JB has screwed the industry" route, give it up Man. I have been in this business 27 years (which I would guess is longer than you) and it was screwed up in many ways long before February 2000.

And not that I owe you an explanation, but if I am being "duped" how come my W2 is north of 200k a year (and that's without Profit Sharing, 401k, ESPP, etc)

Try not to be so bitter, you'll live longer.

Have a good one.

 

[jetblue320]

I am not bashing B6

Neeleman is in his mid 40's. Let's say that he is approx 50 when his contract expires. If his curret 5% is worth approx $120 mil what do you think it will be worth in 5 years?

What I am saying is, if I was 50 years old with $150+ million. I would retire. What would you do?

Give me the reasons why you think that he will hang around? I know I wouldn't. Would you?

Again I am not bashing, just being realistic.

I'll try to answer this for you. I since have discovered, if the book Flying High is correct (and there were a few mistakes in it) he actually owns about 12%, but that's not the point. He told me directly a few months back during a conversation that he had some $90 million. If you add in the stock he has, I would guess that all totaled it would be, maybe $300 million if he went out. The dollar figure is not the point. He has said many times before that Jetblue is his passion, not his job. You said it yourself when you referenced Morris and Westjet and Open Skies and said he sold them all. Well, the fact is all three were joint ventures and not his all to his own. True, he was the mastermind and creator but I know this guy and he's not in it for the credit or the ownership. He is not a typical, money-hungry, anything for the dollar kinda guy. If you choose not to believe that, that's cool because it really doesn't affect you anyway, at least not directly. Trust me when I tell you that David will be around for quite some time. He's too figetity (sp) to do anything else. He is fueled by the everyday hustle bustle of this business. If I were to speculate, I would guess that he will fulfill the next 5 year agreement and probably one more 5 year term.

Personally, I am more worried about losing Dave Barger after his next 5 year term is up. He is the real General, Neeleman is just an Ambassador.

And to answer your other question, no, I would not hang around if I was him. Shoot, I plan on being retired by 2011 (and no I won't be 60) and my dollar figure goal is not even in the same league! But, that's me.

Thanks for your insight, really.

C yaaa

 

[jetblue320]

With a 150+ million and being 50 years old, I would start to have a series of wives that were taller, younger and blonder than the previous. That would insure having to raise more capital for my ventures! Gotta go. My short blonde wife just woke up!

Freddie,

I knew if you looked long enough you would find a Avatar picture to match your tagline. Nice going Ace! Oh, and keep up the good work!!

 

[wndshr]

sounds like someone got canned from phase 1!!!!

Where do they find you guys?
The E-190 payscale is pathetic. Guys that get locked in to that 190 will be screwed. You can make more money flying an RJ. Next thing you know Nerlemann will be talking pay cuts because of the "ultra competetive environment" and you guys will be bending over like Mesa and you'll probably like it. That's the strange part. Nerleman is not much different than Lorenzo. He just gives you a bottle of wine afterwards. The difference is Lorenzo went to existing companies and got the employees to take pay cuts. Nerleman started JB from scratch so he can find dupes willing to work at bargain basement wages. Watch wait and see. JB A-320 growth will mysteriously slow up while 190's show up everywhere.

A while back you wanted an exemption from the 8 hour flying in 24 rule. What else will you do to damage this industry? JetBlue is poison. No way in hell I'd even think about putting in an app.





You're going to be thinking a lot differently about your company 10 years from now. Mark my words.

sounds like someone pissed in your cheerios...hope it wasn't recruitment!

 

[jetblue320]

sounds like someone pissed in your cheerios...hope it wasn't recruitment!

I was thinking the same thing myself but I never kick someone when they are down, just when they are not looking. And what a shame too if it what you think is true. He would have been such a great guy to have at JB, I mean, with that warm and bubbly attitude.



C yaaaa

(Dog gone it, I can't get the cryin' smiley to work! Oh well)