Jet Blue pay raise a done deal

[Splert]

Keep in check that the current direct relationship just started 7 months ago. We all knew this was coming since June. There are many improvements still needed. The work rules committee is rumored to be close to providing their results on some stick issues and also fixing reserve. You all need to remember how quickly this happened, once the current system was put into motion.

I'll be the first to agree that it was all implemented and put into action about 2 years later than it should've been, but it took many steps and actions for it all to gel into the current iteration. Without the JBPA vote last Feb. I don't think we'd be here right now. Had JBPA been voted in, I can assure you we'd be nowhere close to what we have today. Quit acting like what we've accomplished recently is not good. It is. There's a lot of work to continue, but I think the precedent has been set and Mike Barger's promises have paned out. We must continue to hold the company's feet to the fire to continue improving the rest.

But let's face it. We all asked for industry average rates without factoring in a blended high time analysis. We got it.

We asked for industry standard rigs. We got most of them.

Show me a recent example of any union getting this much delta V in so short of a time. I supported JBPA and am glad now it failed. I think we are way better off and I will continue to have high expectations of our direct relationship. If it starts to die off quickly, I'll be the first to push for Alpa.

Let's remember what was accomplished and be proud and happy it had that "happy ending"... so far.

Tailhookah

The direct relationship did not start 7 months ago. It started with the introduction of the E190 then the firing of the PCG and then the PCRB punt then the big lie of being kicked in the teeth.

Without Scope, which would have been JOB 1 of JBPA, you may only get to enjoy industry average for a few years.

JetBlue has got to be the most short sighted pilot group in the Biz.

 

[clickclickboom]

We are all happy that we saw some raises.. My retro check was $5000 for the last 5 months so doing some quick math my pay bump was approximately $12,000 per year flying high credit as a year 4 FO on the bus..

A 190 capt gets nearly 37% bump....

A raise is not enough for me to become blind to the fact that we need a cba.. Not that i am a union nazi but that it is basic business common sense.

One such example is that the company was unable to establish a pilot fund to help pilots in need. A small group of pilots had to take it on themselves.

We have a long way to go but i am happy to see the process working.

 

[9rj9]

Ask the Airtran guys how there CBAs going...ask American guys when they will get there's back, ask a United guy why a Jetblue guys makes more money on the same aircraft...ask a Delta guy if they will ever stop selling out scope.
Good on the B6 guys, the threat of a union is really better than having one.

 

[Splert]

Ask the Airtran guys how there CBAs going...ask American guys when they will get there's back, ask a United guy why a Jetblue guys makes more money on the same aircraft...ask a Delta guy if they will ever stop selling out scope.
Good on the B6 guys, the threat of a union is really better than having one.

We should instead have only been bench marked against Non-union airlines if the threat of a union is better than having one? Good one 9rj9. Brilliant.

But their pay and benefits were and are worse than our former rates at JetBlue's.

The only reason JetBlue was able to get the pay bump was because each of these pilot group you are attempting to look down your nose at had better contracts section for section than JetBlue and every other non-union airline.

Remember at JetBlue when they need to furlough we will not be. We will be non-renewed err fired out of seniority order. That is so much better than recall rights at those union airlines.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I have had more than one 24-25 hour duty day with a crew of 2 (or 2 pilots and flight attendents), Part 121, all FAA approved and legal.

That is why the new Flight/Duty/Rest changes will be good (hopefully it will apply to ALL Part 121!). There will be no more 16 hour duty days for 2 crews, so the FARS will be more restrictive than the JB contract.

cliff
NBO

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ask the Airtran guys how there CBAs going...ask American guys when they will get there's back, ask a United guy why a Jetblue guys makes more money on the same aircraft...ask a Delta guy if they will ever stop selling out scope.
Good on the B6 guys, the threat of a union is really better than having one.

You are saying that the AMR, DAL or UAL total pay and benefits are less than jB?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

You are saying that the AMR, DAL or UAL total pay and benefits are less than jB?

Rez -- it's not worth it. He thinks we "negotiated" our pay "raises" in a vacuum.

 

[LearLove]

The good, bad, and ugly: Good: trip and duty rigs finally industry-standard. Amazingly the trips are much improved now that the company has to actually pay us for our time... Money is significantly better than before. Bad: can still be scheduled to FARs. Insurance and STD/LTD/LOL still massively sub-par. Ugly: no scope protection yet. Hoping my E190 job is not going to be operated by Republic next week....

unfortunately mine is

 

[Sailpilot]

Hi!

I have had more than one 24-25 hour duty day with a crew of 2 (or 2 pilots and flight attendents), Part 121, all FAA approved and legal.

That is why the new Flight/Duty/Rest changes will be good (hopefully it will apply to ALL Part 121!). There will be no more 16 hour duty days for 2 crews, so the FARS will be more restrictive than the JB contract.

cliff
NBO

Your speaking CODE right!? We switched to clear and open a few years ago. No more "Trip", just come out and say it...

Your like talking to Chef with his "Redneck-speak", I know your actually saying something... I just can't understand it?

 

[OurMoney1]

Ask the Airtran guys how there CBAs going...ask American guys when they will get there's back, ask a United guy why a Jetblue guys makes more money on the same aircraft...ask a Delta guy if they will ever stop selling out scope.
Good on the B6 guys, the threat of a union is really better than having one.

I wonder what a threat of a union would do for you when you get called before a congressional panel because something horrific has happened under your watch.

 

[Caveman]

You are saying that the AMR, DAL or UAL total pay and benefits are less than jB?

Pay/retirement/401K: AMR is clearly better. They have better rates, a B fund and an A plan. No contest. At DAL it's closer than you think in most seats and JetBlue is marginally better in some cases. The combination of 401K match and profit sharing is within one percent of DAL's combined 401K/B fund, but we have to contribute 5% to realize it. Because DAL pilots have slightly better rates in most seats and they realize the full potential of their retirement with only a 2% contribution they are overall better off than a typical JetBlue pilot. JetBlue pilots currently enjoy better monetary compensation than their UAL peers.

I'm not familiar with AMR or UAL disability/LOL benefits. I can only assume they are better than JetBlue's because, frankly, ours are barely adequate. I'm somewhat familiar with DAL's and I know they are better protected than we are. This is probably the biggest difference in overall compensation between B6 and the legacy airlines.

Medical? I have no idea. Depending on which JetBlue pilot you talk to our's is either average or awful. Nobody I know thinks it's great. I think it's average compared to most large businesses. I'm not sure where it is in relation to other major airlines. When our PWCs were trying to compare ours to the industry it was difficult to get exact apples to apples comparisons. That info is actually quite closely guarded.

JetBlue's total package is not as good as AMR or DAL. It's about equal to or slightly better than UAL. YMMV.

Before anbody else says it, I agree with you. Our current industry average derived compensation is riding the coattails of wages/benefits earned by dues paying union pilots. I get it. I didn't like it as a Comair pilot when Skywest did it (still does) and I'm not proud of it now. We're working on it.....

 

[Full of LUV]

Well....

Pay/retirement/401K: AMR is clearly better. They have better rates, a B fund and an A plan. No contest. At DAL it's closer than you think in most seats and JetBlue is marginally better in some cases. The combination of 401K match and profit sharing is within one percent of DAL's combined 401K/B fund, but we have to contribute 5% to realize it. Because DAL pilots have slightly better rates in most seats and they realize the full potential of their retirement with only a 2% contribution they are overall better off than a typical JetBlue pilot. JetBlue pilots currently enjoy better monetary compensation than their UAL peers.

I'm not familiar with AMR or UAL disability/LOL benefits. I can only assume they are better than JetBlue's because, frankly, ours are barely adequate. I'm somewhat familiar with DAL's and I know they are better protected than we are. This is probably the biggest difference in overall compensation between B6 and the legacy airlines.

Medical? I have no idea. Depending on which JetBlue pilot you talk to our's is either average or awful. Nobody I know thinks it's great. I think it's average compared to most large businesses. I'm not sure where it is in relation to other major airlines. When our PWCs were trying to compare ours to the industry it was difficult to get exact apples to apples comparisons. That info is actually quite closely guarded.

JetBlue's total package is not as good as AMR or DAL. It's about equal to or slightly better than UAL. YMMV.

Before anbody else says it, I agree with you. Our current industry average derived compensation is riding the coattails of wages/benefits earned by dues paying union pilots. I get it. I didn't like it as a Comair pilot when Skywest did it (still does) and I'm not proud of it now. We're working on it.....

Caveman,
Bottom line is whatever it's based on, it's nice that a raise by whatever mechanism went through finally as it only serves to lessen the pressure on the other carriers when they do get back to negotiations. Although I would like to see JBLU unionize, in the meantime if they at least keep up the pressure to adjust their salaries (especially for a company making money) it will help the rest of us in the long run.
Luv

 

[mt2]

Hi!

I have had more than one 24-25 hour duty day with a crew of 2 (or 2 pilots and flight attendents), Part 121, all FAA approved and legal.
cliff
NBO

121 Supplemental, international by any chance ?? Supplemental rules suck.

 

[fam62c]

A raise is a raise and more money is tough to come by in tough times, I call that a win.

 

[a320drivr]

A raise? lets see.
1. raised health ins premiums
2. raised disability premiums if you can even call it that
3. got rid of 13:30's
4. bid divisors will be lowered
5. earnings conference call barnes mentioned pilot costs will come down due to pilot effeciences

God, you guys are clueless. I am already on track to make $14,000 less in 2010 than I did in 2009.