Jet Blue pay raise a done deal

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ask the Airtran guys how there CBAs going...ask American guys when they will get there's back, ask a United guy why a Jetblue guys makes more money on the same aircraft...ask a Delta guy if they will ever stop selling out scope.
Good on the B6 guys, the threat of a union is really better than having one.

You are saying that the AMR, DAL or UAL total pay and benefits are less than jB?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

You are saying that the AMR, DAL or UAL total pay and benefits are less than jB?

Rez -- it's not worth it. He thinks we "negotiated" our pay "raises" in a vacuum.

 

[LearLove]

The good, bad, and ugly: Good: trip and duty rigs finally industry-standard. Amazingly the trips are much improved now that the company has to actually pay us for our time... Money is significantly better than before. Bad: can still be scheduled to FARs. Insurance and STD/LTD/LOL still massively sub-par. Ugly: no scope protection yet. Hoping my E190 job is not going to be operated by Republic next week....

unfortunately mine is

 

[Sailpilot]

Hi!

I have had more than one 24-25 hour duty day with a crew of 2 (or 2 pilots and flight attendents), Part 121, all FAA approved and legal.

That is why the new Flight/Duty/Rest changes will be good (hopefully it will apply to ALL Part 121!). There will be no more 16 hour duty days for 2 crews, so the FARS will be more restrictive than the JB contract.

cliff
NBO

Your speaking CODE right!? We switched to clear and open a few years ago. No more "Trip", just come out and say it...

Your like talking to Chef with his "Redneck-speak", I know your actually saying something... I just can't understand it?

 

[OurMoney1]

Ask the Airtran guys how there CBAs going...ask American guys when they will get there's back, ask a United guy why a Jetblue guys makes more money on the same aircraft...ask a Delta guy if they will ever stop selling out scope.
Good on the B6 guys, the threat of a union is really better than having one.

I wonder what a threat of a union would do for you when you get called before a congressional panel because something horrific has happened under your watch.

 

[Caveman]

You are saying that the AMR, DAL or UAL total pay and benefits are less than jB?

Pay/retirement/401K: AMR is clearly better. They have better rates, a B fund and an A plan. No contest. At DAL it's closer than you think in most seats and JetBlue is marginally better in some cases. The combination of 401K match and profit sharing is within one percent of DAL's combined 401K/B fund, but we have to contribute 5% to realize it. Because DAL pilots have slightly better rates in most seats and they realize the full potential of their retirement with only a 2% contribution they are overall better off than a typical JetBlue pilot. JetBlue pilots currently enjoy better monetary compensation than their UAL peers.

I'm not familiar with AMR or UAL disability/LOL benefits. I can only assume they are better than JetBlue's because, frankly, ours are barely adequate. I'm somewhat familiar with DAL's and I know they are better protected than we are. This is probably the biggest difference in overall compensation between B6 and the legacy airlines.

Medical? I have no idea. Depending on which JetBlue pilot you talk to our's is either average or awful. Nobody I know thinks it's great. I think it's average compared to most large businesses. I'm not sure where it is in relation to other major airlines. When our PWCs were trying to compare ours to the industry it was difficult to get exact apples to apples comparisons. That info is actually quite closely guarded.

JetBlue's total package is not as good as AMR or DAL. It's about equal to or slightly better than UAL. YMMV.

Before anbody else says it, I agree with you. Our current industry average derived compensation is riding the coattails of wages/benefits earned by dues paying union pilots. I get it. I didn't like it as a Comair pilot when Skywest did it (still does) and I'm not proud of it now. We're working on it.....

 

[Full of LUV]

Well....

Pay/retirement/401K: AMR is clearly better. They have better rates, a B fund and an A plan. No contest. At DAL it's closer than you think in most seats and JetBlue is marginally better in some cases. The combination of 401K match and profit sharing is within one percent of DAL's combined 401K/B fund, but we have to contribute 5% to realize it. Because DAL pilots have slightly better rates in most seats and they realize the full potential of their retirement with only a 2% contribution they are overall better off than a typical JetBlue pilot. JetBlue pilots currently enjoy better monetary compensation than their UAL peers.

I'm not familiar with AMR or UAL disability/LOL benefits. I can only assume they are better than JetBlue's because, frankly, ours are barely adequate. I'm somewhat familiar with DAL's and I know they are better protected than we are. This is probably the biggest difference in overall compensation between B6 and the legacy airlines.

Medical? I have no idea. Depending on which JetBlue pilot you talk to our's is either average or awful. Nobody I know thinks it's great. I think it's average compared to most large businesses. I'm not sure where it is in relation to other major airlines. When our PWCs were trying to compare ours to the industry it was difficult to get exact apples to apples comparisons. That info is actually quite closely guarded.

JetBlue's total package is not as good as AMR or DAL. It's about equal to or slightly better than UAL. YMMV.

Before anbody else says it, I agree with you. Our current industry average derived compensation is riding the coattails of wages/benefits earned by dues paying union pilots. I get it. I didn't like it as a Comair pilot when Skywest did it (still does) and I'm not proud of it now. We're working on it.....

Caveman,
Bottom line is whatever it's based on, it's nice that a raise by whatever mechanism went through finally as it only serves to lessen the pressure on the other carriers when they do get back to negotiations. Although I would like to see JBLU unionize, in the meantime if they at least keep up the pressure to adjust their salaries (especially for a company making money) it will help the rest of us in the long run.
Luv

 

[mt2]

Hi!

I have had more than one 24-25 hour duty day with a crew of 2 (or 2 pilots and flight attendents), Part 121, all FAA approved and legal.
cliff
NBO

121 Supplemental, international by any chance ?? Supplemental rules suck.

 

[fam62c]

A raise is a raise and more money is tough to come by in tough times, I call that a win.

 

[a320drivr]

A raise? lets see.
1. raised health ins premiums
2. raised disability premiums if you can even call it that
3. got rid of 13:30's
4. bid divisors will be lowered
5. earnings conference call barnes mentioned pilot costs will come down due to pilot effeciences

God, you guys are clueless. I am already on track to make $14,000 less in 2010 than I did in 2009.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sounds like a shell game.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Ask the Airtran guys how there CBAs going...ask American guys when they will get there's back, ask a United guy why a Jetblue guys makes more money on the same aircraft...ask a Delta guy if they will ever stop selling out scope.
Good on the B6 guys, the threat of a union is really better than having one.

Absolutely untrue! The only difference between JetBlue and those other companies is profitability. As soon as JetBlue becomes unprofitable, thier pay WILL be cut and you won't have a legal foot to stand on. Unions are extremely limited when an airline is losing money, but when they are profitable, it's one of the best things you have going for you.

AirTran is almost the same age as JetBlue and has had better pay and work rules for years.

 

[nonstop]

Before anbody else says it, I agree with you. Our current industry average derived compensation is riding the coattails of wages/benefits earned by dues paying union pilots. I get it. I didn't like it as a Comair pilot when Skywest did it (still does) and I'm not proud of it now. We're working on it.....

Just to be clear your compensation is riding on the coattails of dues paying union pilots whose companies were in or on the verge of bankruptcy.

 

[V2+10]

Just to be clear your compensation is riding on the coattails of dues paying union pilots

Sorry you had to pay dues to get what you have...or don't have.

 

[Caveman]

Just to be clear your compensation is riding on the coattails of dues paying union pilots whose companies were in or on the verge of bankruptcy.

Our compensation is based on an average of SWA, UAL, DAL/NWA, American, Alaska, Frontier, AirTran, and USAir. Half these companies have filed BK since 9/11. Half did not. What's your point? We're better than some and not as good as others. You guys bitched when we were underpaid and now you're bitching about how we reached parity.

 

[Caveman]

Absolutely untrue! The only difference between JetBlue and those other companies is profitability. As soon as JetBlue becomes unprofitable, thier pay WILL be cut and you won't have a legal foot to stand on. Unions are extremely limited when an airline is losing money, but when they are profitable, it's one of the best things you have going for you.

AirTran is almost the same age as JetBlue and has had better pay and work rules for years.

Check your facts slick. First of all JetBlue was unprofitable in 2007 and 2008. So your profitablility argument doesn't hold water. Second, we have a binding legal document stating how much we get paid and it requires the written agreement of both parties to amend it. Barring BK, JetBlue cannot arbitrarily cut our pay unless we individually agree to it.

 

[Caveman]

A raise? lets see.
1. raised health ins premiums
Most companies raised insurance premiums. It's a sign of the times. Health insurance costs more than it did last year. If you have a beef with that, take it up with the insurance company.

2. raised disability premiums if you can even call it that
Our disability is weak. On that we agree, but essentially it hasn't changed.

3. got rid of 13:30's
I almost exclusively fly 13:30's and while I'm sorry to see them go the other rigs and the pay raise more than compensate.

4. bid divisors will be lowered
They were lowered for Sep and Oct. So was every other airline. November is back to normal.

5. earnings conference call barnes mentioned pilot costs will come down due to pilot effeciences
What does that mean? I'll be working less days? Good.


God, you guys are clueless. I am already on track to make $14,000 less in 2010 than I did in 2009.

You're full of shiite. You may make less, but you'll be working less too. When you compare equal line values you will get more with this PEA than under the old one.

One simple question. Did you sign it? I thought so. If it was such a bad deal and such a big pay cut why did you sign it?

 

[Caveman]

The new PEA was an improvement, but not perfect. It's a good pay raise. It added industry standard rigs. The new PTO rules are better. We still need much better LTD/LOL/STD. We need a true B fund and we desparately need scope langauge. By any objective assessment this PEA is a good thing for JetBlue pilots despite it's shortcomings.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The insurance company?

You mean Jetblue; we're self-insured. We use UHC and BCBS to administer the plans.

No mention of premium trigger going up to 78. And yes bid divisors will be closer to that number for most of next year IMHO.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The new PEA was an improvement, but not perfect. It's a good pay raise. It added industry standard rigs. The new PTO rules are better. We still need much better LTD/LOL/STD. We need a true B fund and we desparately need scope langauge. By any objective assessment this PEA is a good thing for JetBlue pilots despite it's shortcomings.

Don't forget sick time. We need actual sick time. Using vacation for sick call outs is redonculus.