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Jet Blue F/A fired for fatigue call

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32LT10

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Posts
440
Just read a story, http://queenofsky.journalspace.com/
it is about a 1/4 of the way down the page, on this site about a JBlu f/a that was fired for falling asleep after a fatigue call.

I am surprised the company did not tell her she would not be able to sleep in FLL as it was 3 hours different from her "body" time and all jetblew employees know that you can only get proper rest in your home time. That is why transcon turns make sense, right? She would feel so much more rested if she would only fly back to lgb.

Did she violate the FAR's by accepting this assignment? Did jblew knowingly force her to take an FAR illegal assignment?
 
32LT10 said:
Just read a story, http://queenofsky.journalspace.com/
it is about a 1/4 of the way down the page, on this site about a JBlu f/a that was fired for falling asleep after a fatigue call.

I am surprised the company did not tell her she would not be able to sleep in FLL as it was 3 hours different from her "body" time and all jetblew employees know that you can only get proper rest in your home time. That is why transcon turns make sense, right? She would feel so much more rested if she would only fly back to lgb.

Did she violate the FAR's by accepting this assignment? Did jblew knowingly force her to take an FAR illegal assignment?

"Queenoffsky journalspace"? Where else do you get your hard hitting unbiased news! What a joke!
 
I knew this flight attendant, she'd also sleep with any pilot too... Another stupid posting from our friendly LT...
 
Legal to start, legal to finish. Doesn't mean you're not tired
 
BLUE BAYOU said:
I knew this flight attendant, she'd also sleep with any pilot too... Another stupid posting from our friendly LT...

Do you have her number? I'll check out how easily she fatigues and report back.
 
Hey Blue just because you don't like the person does not mean you have to trash her here. You are making all pilots look bad by making statements like that. UBA757
 
As a captain, I wouldn't have left with those flight attendants if they told me they were fatigued. FLL is a F/A domicile and JB would have eventually found someone.

As far as being "forced to fly"...I would say she was pressured by the company, but not forced. We're not in the old USSR.

I've called in fatigued at least twice in my 12+ years with the airlines. I got the same story..."We're gonna have to cancel it if you don't fly it!". After a half second of thinking about it I responded with, "Well, I guess you'll have to cancel the flight then".

JB and some flight attendents really like the transcon turn as it saves a bunch of money in hotel costs and per diem. The problem is that, in my opinion, they can't deliver the "JB experience" to the customers when they're tired. Transcon turns are fatiguing (sp?), but are especially so at night.

GP
 
uba757 said:
Hey Blue just because you don't like the person does not mean you have to trash her here. You are making all pilots look bad by making statements like that. UBA757

And you thought my reply held a breadth of truth? It was a simple reply to another one of 32LT10's bashing of JBLU. I haven't a clue about this flight attendant, nor if the story is even true. There is no doubt that F/As here get fatigued, but they do it to themselves. Some F/As here do multiple Transcon turns 3-4 nights in a row and take the rest of the month off... I've personally not seen one fall asleep on a flight with the many encounters I've had with Transcon turn crews (LAS, ONT); and they certainly know of the consequences if they fall asleep on duty and are caught in the cabin by a supervisor-- our cameras can not be used for disciplinary purposes although if I ever caught one napping on camera, I'd just buzz em for a potty break by hitting the FWD call button if they're all in the back-- makes em get up and move, heheh...
 
32LT10 said:
Just read a story, http://queenofsky.journalspace.com/
it is about a 1/4 of the way down the page, on this site about a JBlu f/a that was fired for falling asleep after a fatigue call.

I am surprised the company did not tell her she would not be able to sleep in FLL as it was 3 hours different from her "body" time and all jetblew employees know that you can only get proper rest in your home time. That is why transcon turns make sense, right? She would feel so much more rested if she would only fly back to lgb.

Did she violate the FAR's by accepting this assignment? Did jblew knowingly force her to take an FAR illegal assignment?

32IQ10

You can't spell very well, and I'll bet you don't comprehend what you read. Have your mother or other responsible adult read this to you.

JetBlue offered to provide rest accomodations, as stated in the article. Crewmember agrees to continue, legally. Someone reports her falling asleep on the job. JetBlue treats this as a terminable offense.

If you think this shouldn't be taken seriously, please let us know why you feel that way. I can wait until you're up from your nap.
 
3BCat said:
32IQ10

JetBlue offered to provide rest accomodations, as stated in the article. Crewmember agrees to continue, legally.

Telling a fatigued crewmember that you will deadhead them from that city to another city and then put them in a hotel sure sounds like coercion to continue the trip. I wonder what Jet Blue's POI would have to say about it.

This episode, if true, is very troubling, especially when you consider that this same airline wants an exemption from the FAA for the 8 hour flight rule for pilots.



.




Someone reports her falling asleep on the job. JetBlue treats this as a terminable offense.
[/quote]
 
Vastly Underemp said:
Legal to start, legal to finish. Doesn't mean you're not tired

Not neccessarily, Duty restrictions still apply. They are not something you can forgo to get the flight home. My question is about F/A duty days. Does anyone know what if any limits they have and did Jblew force this person into a violation.

I really like how she was ratted out by one of the other crewmembers. Lovely in a non-union airline that you don't have a PSC to address these concerns. Instead you make an accusation and then you get them fired. Wonder if they could do this to the pilotos also?
 
Ty Webb said:
Telling a fatigued crewmember that you will deadhead them from that city to another city and then put them in a hotel sure sounds like coercion to continue the trip. I wonder what Jet Blue's POI would have to say about it.

This episode, if true, is very troubling, especially when you consider that this same airline wants an exemption from the FAA for the 8 hour flight rule for pilots.

POI's have no regulatory guidance or grounds to determine deadhead after duty.

Deadheading to a hotel because no hotels in town...$50

Falling asleep at work, getting caught, getting fired and then blabbing it all over the internet...$100

Trying to put the blame on the airline.........wait for it.........PRICELESS!
 
A DH is still part of a duty day. You can not DH and not call it duty. I am afraid these issues show why so many are concerned with the rest issues and Jblew. Your lack of understanding about basic FAR's and what constitutes duty time is scary.

The pilots allowing these fa's that called in fatigued to continue also raise some serious questions about the operation and how it addresses the safety of the airline.
 
32LT10 said:
The pilots allowing these fa's that called in fatigued to continue also raise some serious questions about the operation and how it addresses the safety of the airline.

Amen, brother!

GP
 
32whatever....

Now don't you worry yourself about the fate of some poor JetBlue F/A and whether it serves as a harbinger of even more diabolical things brewing at Forest Hills. The flying business teaches experienced pilots that one should never jump out of their skin at the first indication of a problem and over-react. Better to hack your watch and wait before jumping to conclusions and screwing the pooch.

The analogy applies in this case as well since absolutely none of us have any "first-hand" knowledge of what actually happened. You could bet your next paycheck on the fact that there is very likely much more to this story than what has been published on some questionable internet site.

Now, with that said, why don't you pull your sorry excuse for a p@#$% out of the forementioned pooch's backside and go slither back to that slimy hole you crawled out of.
 
Deadheading is indeed part of duty, since it would be transportation not local in nature, however, would she have exceeded duty time had she done so?

I know nothing more of her story than is published, but if the narrative is correct, it appears she could have been flown to NY and still been within duty limits.

Sorry 32LT10, but once again you agenda shines through and your continual diatribes against jetblue are becoming most tiresome!
 
32IQ10 Couldn't find a responsible adult to help you...

32LT10 said:
A DH is still part of a duty day. You can not DH and not call it duty. I am afraid these issues show why so many are concerned with the rest issues and Jblew. Your lack of understanding about basic FAR's and what constitutes duty time is scary.

The pilots allowing these fa's that called in fatigued to continue also raise some serious questions about the operation and how it addresses the safety of the airline.

If you call off work, (and don't continue working) you get released from duty. You can deadhead all the way to Dubai if you want to.

Show me the regulation that controls deadhead after duty.

Common sense isn't your strong suit is it?
 
Dizel8 said:
Deadheading is indeed part of duty, since it would be transportation not local in nature, however, would she have exceeded duty time had she done so?

I know nothing more of her story than is published, but if the narrative is correct, it appears she could have been flown to NY and still been within duty limits.

Sorry 32LT10, but once again you agenda shines through and your continual diatribes against jetblue are becoming most tiresome!

D8, I am sure there is much more to this story. A person can be fatigued before a contractual or FAR limit. It is up to the individual to say "uncle" and stop the show. It appears the options given by JBLU might not have been convenient to anyone involved. The rest of the story is out there. Just waiting on someone with the complete answers.
 
32LT10 said:
A person can be fatigued before a contractual or FAR limit. It is up to the individual to say "uncle" and stop the show. It appears the options given by JBLU might not have been convenient to anyone involved.

Absolutely, being within FAR limits does not guarantee one is not fatigued and the F word stops the show, however, no where in the FAR is "convenient" mentioned. As long as she was within duty limits, they could have sent her to Timbuktu or worse yet, Motel 6.

As you said, I am sure there is more to the story, which is why you coming into the "room" blazing away seems a bit silly and does further convince me, that this is merely a continuation of your agenda.

As for your persistent use of jetblew, should we play like thirdgraders and call your employer Yonited?
 
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Ty Webb said:
Telling a fatigued crewmember that you will deadhead them from that city to another city and then put them in a hotel sure sounds like coercion to continue the trip. I wonder what Jet Blue's POI would have to say about it.

This episode, if true, is very troubling, especially when you consider that this same airline wants an exemption from the FAA for the 8 hour flight rule for pilots.



.




Someone reports her falling asleep on the job. JetBlue treats this as a terminable offense.
[/quote]

Well put "Snug Fit"!! Firing somebody cause they fell asleep is stupid at best.
 
I am going to respond to this one, but keep in mind I have not been an FA for four years. Perhaps the regs have changed since I left, but I do not remember there being a 14-hour duty day limitation with the FAA. Someone correct me on that if I am wrong.

When I was at AWA, we had "contractual" limitations of 14 hours. If the duty day went over that, we had the right to refuse the trip. At 16 hours, we were not legal to work at all.

I remember specifically one trip about five years ago. We were due to depart JFK. Our flight had been cancelled and the other a/c was late inbound due to a storm - the a/c that would have deadheaded us home. The a/c inbound landed at EWR because the storm was too bad at the time, and we took a van ride over to that airport to get the a/c.

The crew that brought the aircraft into EWR (instead of JFK) had pilots that timed out. We flew the a/c from EWR to JFK. Then, the other crew picked up the flight to work it, while my crew deadheaded on the a/c.

We got to LAS, and the company told us that we could not deadhead home to PHX because we would go over 16 hours. They said they would have to get us a hotel room in LAS. At this point, it was about 3 a.m. and I had to get home to my son because his dad had to work the next day. So, I told them to put me up in the hotel and I non-revved home from LAS to PHX. It was really stupid, because they paid for a hotel room that I did not use, and duty time.

Have I ever been intimidated into flying a flight? Yes. Right before I left the airline, I hit my head in the cockpit while doing the potty swap with the pilots. I had stood up quickly to get the door for the Captain. (this was right after 9/11, and there were no reinforced doors) I was very dazed, and when we got to MCO, I called scheduling right away and told them I hit my head. I could not even talk to them - my speech was slurred and I could not think straight.

They told me that I would HAVE to work the flight back to PHX the next morning, as they could not put a reserve on the flight. I said, (on tape recording) "So, you are telling me that even if I am not able to work the flight, I have to work it?" Their response? "Yes."

The next morning I got out of bed and fell down to the floor. I called scheduling and told them what happened. Oh man, were they mad! I told them that I had called the night before, and was told they had no one to work the flight because of contractual obligations.

So, I ended up in the ER. They had to delay the flight six hours to DH a crew member in on SWA to MCO. Turns out I had a concussion and a traumatic brain injury. I still have a dent in my head from the incident. It took six months to get my faculties back, plus tons of physical therapy. I had also jammed my vertebrae in my neck when I hit my head, and I could not turn my head right or left for weeks.

I ended up spending four days in FLL as the doctors would not let me fly. I then spent months out of work.

So, what should the company have done? Sent me to the ER right away. But they were so worried about their plane not getting back to base, that they did not have common sense that something was really wrong. I had never had a concussion, so I just thought I had a bad headache.

So, yes, it does happen.
 
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3BCat said:
POI's have no regulatory guidance or grounds to determine deadhead after duty.
You're missing the point.

It's not the "deadhead", it is the attempt to intimidate the crew out of a fatigue call, which the POI would definitely be interested in.

But let me guess, you're the kind of guy who is willing to do "whatever it takes" . . . . . to the detriment of everyone else.


.
 
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Oh guardian AH of JetBlue, 32. Why don't you have some round ones and call the FAA (516-228-8029, ext.231)about this terrible transgression. Why you won't do it? Because you're a coward! You hide behind a screen name and sling your verbal fecal matter and contribute nothing. Yet you cry the "blues" how bad things are with us, while a number of your former coworkers have jobs because of JetBlue. You're the cause of your own problems. Next time you feel the urge to bash us, look into the mirror and holler at yourself. Your selfishness in this industry caused JetBlue to be. You may now go kick your dog, or stand in the corner, where you belong.
 
32LT10

Were you not banned a few weeks ago after showing your darkest side and true colors? That website you were on is certainly a step up from the ones you have obviously been frequenting, causing you to post the fecal matter you did resulting in your ban. IMO you are a prime candidate for one of those electronic ankle bracelets so the proper authorities can keep an eye you and protect the children out there. You smell bad, vermin.
 
Dizel8 said:
Deadheading is indeed part of duty, since it would be transportation not local in nature, however, would she have exceeded duty time had she done so?

I know nothing more of her story than is published, but if the narrative is correct, it appears she could have been flown to NY and still been within duty limits.

Sorry 32LT10, but once again you agenda shines through and your continual diatribes against jetblue are becoming most tiresome!

Dizel8-

Maybe I'm missing something here but isn't the issue the fact that the FA called in fatigued yet the company did not provide her with a hotel at the point of the fatigue call. Once you call in fatigued you cannot remain on duty. Deadheading is not rest as 32LT10 aptly pointed out. So JBLUE was pushing the FA to remain on duty while fatigued. It is NOT an issue of whether or not she exceeded her duty limits but whether or not the company intimidated/coerced her into remaining on duty while fatigued.

I don't have a bone to pick with JBLue but it is interesting that so many blue pilots on here have this knee jerk reaction instead of exploring the issue. What is wrong with admitting the company wronged an employee? It happens everywhere....
 
GuppyPuppy said:
I've called in fatigued at least twice in my 12+ years with the airlines. I got the same story..."We're gonna have to cancel it if you don't fly it!". After a half second of thinking about it I responded with, "Well, I guess you'll have to cancel the flight then".


GP


Good. There have been pilots who let themselves get talked out of fatigue calls. You have a recorded conversation of a pilot calling the company saying they are unfit to fly and then letting someone talk them out of his/her previous assesment. Hello violation......God help you if you have an incident or accident on the next leg. Fox/CNN/the FAA would have a field day with that one.
 

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