JBLU cuts 5 Yr. Pilots, Fact or Fiction?

[TonyC]

Thanks Tony,

A few more questions for you:

What is in the contract (if you can disclose some of its contents)?

Are these contracts in place to keep the pilots from leaving Jetblue for another carrier once they are trained?

If not, what is the purpose of the contract?

Are these contracts different from pilot to pilot? I.e. wages, work rules, length of contract

What happens when the contract expires?

Thanks!

I can send you a copy of the contract I have if you'll PM me an e-mail address. There's really nothing unusual about it except JetBlue pilots seem to want to be secretive about it.

I'm not a JetBlue "crewmember" - pilot, management, or otherwise - so I can't speak to the intent or purpose of the contract. It looks to me like a low-cost way of making pilots feel a sense of security in an At-will employment arrangement. Although there is no verbiage that specifically refers to training and then going to fly somewhere else (no "No Compete" clause like many refer to) I don't see a way for a JetBlue pilot to get out the contract before the 5 years has expired.

As far as I know the contracts are the same. Later versions probably have higher pay rates than the original contracts, but they stipulate that if pay rates are raised for anyone, they're raised for everyone, so everyone's treated the same.

The contract doesn't exactly expire. From Paragraph 1, EMPLOYMENT AND TERM, "Unless either the Airline or the Pilot provides notice within three (3) months of the Agreement expiration date, this Agreement will automatically renew for additional five (5) year periods subject to a revised pay schedule as listed in Addendum A to this Agreement."

 

[B6Busdriver]

From what I have heard from high up people inside the company was that many Captains expressed interest in jumping over to the EMB-190 so they could live closer to home. They said that the captains were told that the pay would be less but they were still all for it. I don't think that the captains that expressed interest in this knew the pay rates were going to be this low though.

Seeing that the airplanes will initially be based in JFK that wouldn't make much sense now would it?

 

[jbucpt]

I'm not a JetBlue "crewmember" - pilot, management, or otherwise - so I can't speak to the intent or purpose of the contract. It looks to me like a low-cost way of making pilots feel a sense of security in an At-will employment arrangement.

hey tony,

where is the "COLLECTIVE BARGAINING" for your beloved ALPA members when they have to GIVE BACK their COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT??

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a great ALPA STATESMAN once said: "We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has"

 

[FLB717]

JBUCapt,

The day the JetBlue has the same problems as Delta or American I bet that ol' Dave would redo your "Contract" in a New York minute. Most all these guys go to the same "Screw your pilot class if you need something 101", if you think not than that is your thoughts. But at a growing and or young company the powers that be need you to help them make things work. The proof is when the fun stops. No one gives back a CBA, it is taken through a long process that uses numbers like 11 and 7. Yours on the other hand would not requier those numbers. Why you don't have a CBA to start with.

p.s. I am not ALPA, thank God.

 

[jbucpt]

JBUCapt,

. No one gives back a CBA, it is taken through a long process that uses numbers like 11 and 7. Yours on the other hand would not requier those numbers. Why you don't have a CBA to start with.

p.s. I am not ALPA, thank God.

so then what do call the actions taken by the american airline pilots, or what the delta pilots are going to do??? a "donation" to the company??

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a great ALPA STATESMAN once said: "We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has"

 

[nitrogen]

JBLU mania

The JBLU guys are largely considered the sell outs of the industry.

To operate a non union pilot group using a 5 yr contract is simply a union busting move. After getting enough BuFu s and figuring out that if you ever want a decent life you MUST have a Collective Bargaining Agreement some guy is gonna try to bring a union in here. And you know whats gonna happen? He's not gonna get his contract renewed. Pure and simple. They arent exactly gonna fire him. They just aren't gonna 'renew' his employment. The party ended at JBLU long ago when the stock price headed south and reality set in on the work rules issues. The only question now is how much more damage they can do to this ailing industry while theyre here.

US Airways, United, Jetblue...............somethings gotta give.

4 years from now at least 1 and maybe all three of these companies won't exist. If JBLU is still around it will only be because they finally COMPLETELY destroyed the piloting profession. Even the SWA guys think theyre a joke.

 

[DonVerita]

jbucpt wrote: "so then what do call the actions taken by the american airline pilots, or what the delta pilots are going to do??? a 'donation' to the company??"

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The operative word here would be "voluntary". The AA and DAL pilots are voluntarily taking pay cuts, albeit as a last resort, to avoid bankruptcy proceedings. As an alternative they could adopt a "Max Pay to the Last Day" stance and that would be their perogative. They have the legal grounds to make a choice. jetBlue pilots on the other hand, do not. You have no contract therefore you have no legal recourse to protect your wages from stagnation/reduction and/or your position from termination. Management may do what they want with you, your pay, your working conditions, etc. and there is nothing you can do about it. I am not trying to flame; just stating a relevant fact.

Perhaps you guys might want to consider unionizing in some form so that you may at least get some legal protections in place. It doesn't matter if it is a national or in-house union. Just get some kind of CBA in place, even if it is basic, and then build upon it as time goes by.

 

[lowecur]

It's all about supply and demand gumby. When pilot pay is high and there is an industry shortage, they: 1. Start their own proprietary schools 2. Private Schools pop up 3. The military can't compete with the high salaries, and pilots don't re-up.

The above leads to oversupply and salaries fall. All the unions in the world can't hold back capitalism.

If you want to make money, go be a mechanic. I would guess there is a shortage if these people are getting $35-40 per hour. Ever wonder why UAIR's mech's never offer to give up anything? They know if the airline fails, they will have jobs somewhere. Certainly not true of the pilots.
Just my three cents.

 

[jbucpt]

jbucpt wrote: "so then what do call the actions taken by the american airline pilots, or what the delta pilots are going to do??? a 'donation' to the company??"

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The operative word here would be "voluntary". The AA and DAL pilots are voluntarily taking pay cuts, albeit as a last resort, to avoid bankruptcy proceedings. As an alternative they could adopt a "Max Pay to the Last Day" stance and that would be their perogative. They have the legal grounds to make a choice. jetBlue pilots on the other hand, do not. You have no contract therefore you have no legal recourse to protect your wages from stagnation/reduction and/or your position from termination. Management may do what they want with you, your pay, your working conditions, etc. and there is nothing you can do about it. I am not trying to flame; just stating a relevant fact.

Perhaps you guys might want to consider unionizing in some form so that you may at least get some legal protections in place. It doesn't matter if it is a national or in-house union. Just get some kind of CBA in place, even if it is basic, and then build upon it as time goes by.

a CBA guarantee's you nothing. it does not guarantee you wage protection, it does not guarantee you furlough protection, it does not guarantee you a pension plan.. so please stop with the ALPA KOOD-AID by stating that the jbu pilots are helpless without one.

ask a UNITED, USAIR , DELTA, TWA pilot how they feel about their "collective bargaining power"......

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a great ALPA STATESMAN once said: "We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has"

 

[Ace757]

Seeing that the airplanes will initially be based in JFK that wouldn't make much sense now would it?

B6Busdriver, That info came directly from AL.