JBLU cuts 5 Yr. Pilots, Fact or Fiction?

[side stick-n]

Heywood and Front Office,


How about sending a PM of your "real" name and I'll do the same for you. This will prove that you are indeed a JetBlue Pilot. Otherwise, I think you are on this board to do nothing more than flame and sling $hit. And ASH, you need to grow up dude. What's the purpose of getting your little flame in? To show that you are pulling gear in a 145? There's nothing wrong with that but I don't see anything incredible about your pay either.....

 

[TonyC]

Heywood and Front Office,


How about sending a PM of your "real" name and I'll do the same for you. This will prove that you are indeed a JetBlue Pilot. Otherwise, I think you are on this board to do nothing more than flame and sling $hit. And ASH, you need to grow up dude. What's the purpose of getting your little flame in? To show that you are pulling gear in a 145? There's nothing wrong with that but I don't see anything incredible about your pay either.....

While you're at it, why don't you go ahead and publish the criteria that you would have a forum member meet in order to be qualified to comment on this thread. That way we can weed out the opinions you don't like.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

Heywood and Front Office,


How about sending a PM of your "real" name and I'll do the same for you. This will prove that you are indeed a JetBlue Pilot. Otherwise, I think you are on this board to do nothing more than flame and sling $hit. And ASH, you need to grow up dude. What's the purpose of getting your little flame in? To show that you are pulling gear in a 145? There's nothing wrong with that but I don't see anything incredible about your pay either.....

are you for real, dude?

 

[ASH]

Flame I did, and flame I shall....for 'tis flame worthy.

 

[hankhill]

Blue Bayou,

You're right, anyone with 400 hours really doesn't have the overall experience to comment with any real authority on the general state of commercial aviation as we know it today. That being said, you need to relax, you're a pretty inexperienced pilot just like I am. Seven or eight thousand hours is a drop in the bucket.

I've noticed quite a few of you guys taking offense at anyone with the nerve to question any insignificant decision or policy that's handed down by jetBlue management. It's a free country, live and let live, just do your job the best you can, there's room for all of us to make a living.

It's easy to hide behind a monitor and be a tough guy.

hank

 

[lumax]

The original question posted here referred to 5 expired pilot contracts that were not renewed. What does that mean?

I have not heard off an individual pilot signing a contract with the company when they get hired. The contracts that I know are union contracts but Jetblue is non-union.

Can someone either clarify my misunderstanding or shed some light on these type of contracts?

Thanks!

 

[TonyC]

The original question posted here referred to 5 expired pilot contracts that were not renewed. What does that mean?

I have not heard off an individual pilot signing a contract with the company when they get hired. The contracts that I know are union contracts but Jetblue is non-union.

Can someone either clarify my misunderstanding or shed some light on these type of contracts?

Thanks!

JetBlue pilots indivdually sign an employment contract. There is no Collective Bargaining Agreement, commonly referred to by union pilots as "the" contract. The JetBlue pilot employment contracts are for 5 years.

 

[lumax]

Thanks Tony,

A few more questions for you:

What is in the contract (if you can disclose some of its contents)?

Are these contracts in place to keep the pilots from leaving Jetblue for another carrier once they are trained?

If not, what is the purpose of the contract?

Are these contracts different from pilot to pilot? I.e. wages, work rules, length of contract

What happens when the contract expires?

Thanks!

 

[StarChecker]

What's the answer to the 640,000 question? Square feet in the new Terminal Five . . .


NY/NJ Port agency approves $875 mln JetBlue terminal
Wednesday August 4, 4:30 pm ET
NEW YORK, Aug 4 (Reuters) - The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey on Wednesday approved the construction of a new $875 million terminal for JetBlue Airways at John F. Kennedy International Airport.


Details of how the project will be funded are still subject to discussions between the airline and the Port Authority, said Charles Gargano, a Port Authority commissioner.

The new terminal will be 640,000 square feet and house 26 gates. It will also include a new parking garage with more than 1,500 spaces.

New York-based JetBlue will operate the terminal under a 34-year lease. Construction is expected to begin in 2005.

The low-cost carrier started operations in February 2000 and carries more passengers through JFK airport than any other airline. In addition to its U.S. routes, it recently began offering international service in June to Santiago and Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic.

My father's company was contracted to do work for this new terminal. Last week he told me that construction had been put on hold "indefinitely". Wonder if financing it has become a problem lately....

 

[Ace757]

With all do respect, you have know idea what position im in to comment on this. All you see is 400 hours. Did you ever think that I might have more experience with this industry that has nothing to do with flightime? You listen to lowcurs bull shi** and he doesn't even have a hand in aviation at all. If anything im much more qualified then him to comment on this with respect to flight time alone. Why are all the JB guys getting so defensive??? geee, take it down a notch before you give yourself ulcers.

 

[TonyC]

Thanks Tony,

A few more questions for you:

What is in the contract (if you can disclose some of its contents)?

Are these contracts in place to keep the pilots from leaving Jetblue for another carrier once they are trained?

If not, what is the purpose of the contract?

Are these contracts different from pilot to pilot? I.e. wages, work rules, length of contract

What happens when the contract expires?

Thanks!

I can send you a copy of the contract I have if you'll PM me an e-mail address. There's really nothing unusual about it except JetBlue pilots seem to want to be secretive about it.

I'm not a JetBlue "crewmember" - pilot, management, or otherwise - so I can't speak to the intent or purpose of the contract. It looks to me like a low-cost way of making pilots feel a sense of security in an At-will employment arrangement. Although there is no verbiage that specifically refers to training and then going to fly somewhere else (no "No Compete" clause like many refer to) I don't see a way for a JetBlue pilot to get out the contract before the 5 years has expired.

As far as I know the contracts are the same. Later versions probably have higher pay rates than the original contracts, but they stipulate that if pay rates are raised for anyone, they're raised for everyone, so everyone's treated the same.

The contract doesn't exactly expire. From Paragraph 1, EMPLOYMENT AND TERM, "Unless either the Airline or the Pilot provides notice within three (3) months of the Agreement expiration date, this Agreement will automatically renew for additional five (5) year periods subject to a revised pay schedule as listed in Addendum A to this Agreement."

 

[B6Busdriver]

From what I have heard from high up people inside the company was that many Captains expressed interest in jumping over to the EMB-190 so they could live closer to home. They said that the captains were told that the pay would be less but they were still all for it. I don't think that the captains that expressed interest in this knew the pay rates were going to be this low though.

Seeing that the airplanes will initially be based in JFK that wouldn't make much sense now would it?

 

[jbucpt]

I'm not a JetBlue "crewmember" - pilot, management, or otherwise - so I can't speak to the intent or purpose of the contract. It looks to me like a low-cost way of making pilots feel a sense of security in an At-will employment arrangement.

hey tony,

where is the "COLLECTIVE BARGAINING" for your beloved ALPA members when they have to GIVE BACK their COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT??

-------

a great ALPA STATESMAN once said: "We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has"

 

[FLB717]

JBUCapt,

The day the JetBlue has the same problems as Delta or American I bet that ol' Dave would redo your "Contract" in a New York minute. Most all these guys go to the same "Screw your pilot class if you need something 101", if you think not than that is your thoughts. But at a growing and or young company the powers that be need you to help them make things work. The proof is when the fun stops. No one gives back a CBA, it is taken through a long process that uses numbers like 11 and 7. Yours on the other hand would not requier those numbers. Why you don't have a CBA to start with.

p.s. I am not ALPA, thank God.

 

[jbucpt]

JBUCapt,

. No one gives back a CBA, it is taken through a long process that uses numbers like 11 and 7. Yours on the other hand would not requier those numbers. Why you don't have a CBA to start with.

p.s. I am not ALPA, thank God.

so then what do call the actions taken by the american airline pilots, or what the delta pilots are going to do??? a "donation" to the company??

---------

a great ALPA STATESMAN once said: "We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has"

 

[nitrogen]

JBLU mania

The JBLU guys are largely considered the sell outs of the industry.

To operate a non union pilot group using a 5 yr contract is simply a union busting move. After getting enough BuFu s and figuring out that if you ever want a decent life you MUST have a Collective Bargaining Agreement some guy is gonna try to bring a union in here. And you know whats gonna happen? He's not gonna get his contract renewed. Pure and simple. They arent exactly gonna fire him. They just aren't gonna 'renew' his employment. The party ended at JBLU long ago when the stock price headed south and reality set in on the work rules issues. The only question now is how much more damage they can do to this ailing industry while theyre here.

US Airways, United, Jetblue...............somethings gotta give.

4 years from now at least 1 and maybe all three of these companies won't exist. If JBLU is still around it will only be because they finally COMPLETELY destroyed the piloting profession. Even the SWA guys think theyre a joke.

 

[DonVerita]

jbucpt wrote: "so then what do call the actions taken by the american airline pilots, or what the delta pilots are going to do??? a 'donation' to the company??"

---------

The operative word here would be "voluntary". The AA and DAL pilots are voluntarily taking pay cuts, albeit as a last resort, to avoid bankruptcy proceedings. As an alternative they could adopt a "Max Pay to the Last Day" stance and that would be their perogative. They have the legal grounds to make a choice. jetBlue pilots on the other hand, do not. You have no contract therefore you have no legal recourse to protect your wages from stagnation/reduction and/or your position from termination. Management may do what they want with you, your pay, your working conditions, etc. and there is nothing you can do about it. I am not trying to flame; just stating a relevant fact.

Perhaps you guys might want to consider unionizing in some form so that you may at least get some legal protections in place. It doesn't matter if it is a national or in-house union. Just get some kind of CBA in place, even if it is basic, and then build upon it as time goes by.

 

[lowecur]

It's all about supply and demand gumby. When pilot pay is high and there is an industry shortage, they: 1. Start their own proprietary schools 2. Private Schools pop up 3. The military can't compete with the high salaries, and pilots don't re-up.

The above leads to oversupply and salaries fall. All the unions in the world can't hold back capitalism.

If you want to make money, go be a mechanic. I would guess there is a shortage if these people are getting $35-40 per hour. Ever wonder why UAIR's mech's never offer to give up anything? They know if the airline fails, they will have jobs somewhere. Certainly not true of the pilots.
Just my three cents.

 

[jbucpt]

jbucpt wrote: "so then what do call the actions taken by the american airline pilots, or what the delta pilots are going to do??? a 'donation' to the company??"

---------

The operative word here would be "voluntary". The AA and DAL pilots are voluntarily taking pay cuts, albeit as a last resort, to avoid bankruptcy proceedings. As an alternative they could adopt a "Max Pay to the Last Day" stance and that would be their perogative. They have the legal grounds to make a choice. jetBlue pilots on the other hand, do not. You have no contract therefore you have no legal recourse to protect your wages from stagnation/reduction and/or your position from termination. Management may do what they want with you, your pay, your working conditions, etc. and there is nothing you can do about it. I am not trying to flame; just stating a relevant fact.

Perhaps you guys might want to consider unionizing in some form so that you may at least get some legal protections in place. It doesn't matter if it is a national or in-house union. Just get some kind of CBA in place, even if it is basic, and then build upon it as time goes by.

a CBA guarantee's you nothing. it does not guarantee you wage protection, it does not guarantee you furlough protection, it does not guarantee you a pension plan.. so please stop with the ALPA KOOD-AID by stating that the jbu pilots are helpless without one.

ask a UNITED, USAIR , DELTA, TWA pilot how they feel about their "collective bargaining power"......

------
a great ALPA STATESMAN once said: "We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has"

 

[Ace757]

Seeing that the airplanes will initially be based in JFK that wouldn't make much sense now would it?

B6Busdriver, That info came directly from AL.