JB to retire aircraft?

[Smoking Man]

Sounds like you are getting nervous. I just posted the article without any commentary. Do you not want me to post anymore JB articles? Why not?


Bye Bye--General Lee

First, you did not answer my question.

Second, nope on the nervous, I would get nervious if cutbacks were being made in what we provide the customers. Also I believe in Dave & David.

Post any articles you would like, My addressing U.S. airways is because they were mentioned in the article, and Delta was because you work there. I will retort on mentioning delta if you find it personal.

 

[Blue Dude]

BTW, of the first,oldest 8 aircraft, the first 4 are leased and the next 4 are owned. The first three or four are also the oddest, meaning non-standard, of the fleet and highest cycle/time so it would make sense for them to go first. I'm not really all that happy about losing aircraft, but gaining new aircraft at a faster rate than we're losing them is better than the alternative of losing net aircraft outright. And if we can dispose of 30000 hr aircraft at a profit to fund continued growth, that's OK by me.

 

[32LT10]

An airplane that is seven years old is not "OLD". This sounds a bit like JBLU is addicted to the free maintenance and warranty programs that come with new airplanes. There is a downside to this in a maturing company as they still have some bills due with the old fleet. Also, if the price of the old airplanes are high due to demand one could then reason the cost of getting new airplanes could also be up due to demand. Same story in reverse.

Either way it appears to be a house of cards. Similar to the situation that has occured at numerous former airlines over the years.

 

[AA717driver]

I would imagine that JB would benefit financially from taking new aircraft and shucking off "older" 320's rather than going through the legal wrangling of deferring deliveries.

So JB doesn't have a better crystal ball than anyone else. Big deal. At least they are doing something about it rather than the senior management taking their parachutes and jumping ship.

Airline pilots in this country are STILL counting on the misfortune of their fellow pilots in order to secure THEIR futures. uke: TC

 

[32LT10]

I would imagine that JB would benefit financially from taking new aircraft and shucking off "older" 320's rather than going through the legal wrangling of deferring deliveries.


Airline pilots in this country are STILL counting on the misfortune of their fellow pilots in order to secure THEIR futures. uke: TC

With deposits tied up in the pipeline JBLU is in a sticky position. Pull the deposits to secure the cash and then you have to pay for mtc. on the current fleet. This is beginning to look similar to the ways and means of flyi. Great service, poor plan. Personally I don't think JBLU going away would help anyones growth as their capacity in market is not that great. You need one of the major carriers to disappear to see a marked change in the landscape. This will most likely be accomplished via consolidation in the major carrier ranks.

A failing JBLU secures no ones future. What a failing JBLU will accomplish is the ever continuing cycle of new carriers in this industry.

 

[CapnVegetto]

JB has made money in the past because of low costs primarily brought on by a super low average age. Low average pilot age (seniority), and low fleet age (MX costs). The way they managed to keep this up was with massive growth, keeping the 'average' age down, as well as the costs. Now there's not as much room to grow, that gol dang US Airways (which they were counting on folding), didn't, and now they're stuck in the same rut as everyone else with rising costs, fierce competition, and a $hit ton of debt. I don't think what they're doing is a bad plan, get rid of the old, get some ca$h for 'em, and finance new ones, but in the end it's just a band-aid. They're simply gonna have to start charging more.

 

[B6 Tech]

An airplane that is seven years old is not "OLD". This sounds a bit like JBLU is addicted to the free maintenance and warranty programs that come with new airplanes. There is a downside to this in a maturing company as they still have some bills due with the old fleet. Also, if the price of the old airplanes are high due to demand one could then reason the cost of getting new airplanes could also be up due to demand. Same story in reverse.

Either way it appears to be a house of cards. Similar to the situation that has occured at numerous former airlines over the years.

Dude, as far as airplanes go, age is not what makes them old, rather hours and cycles. If I bought an '05 Maxima, and put 220K miles on her by this point, maybe she isn't old, but rather worn out? 503 thru 515 atleast fit that bill. FWIW, was in 510's AIDS program a few nights back and she has 34K+ hrs on her. Way back when in my A&P school days, we had a 57K hour NWA 727 that was operated for 22 years. How old is 510? 5 yrs tops?

Addicted to MX warrenties? Umm, YEAH!! What, would you prefer to pay out of pocket to have your car fixed, or have it covered under warrenty? I think a 3rd grader can answer that one.... Are you like alot of people I know who trade in prior to the end of a vehicles warrenty to get a shiney new one, covered for another 5 years? Same thing applies here. Is that an addiction, or smart business in this climate? No one has learned a damn thing abouth this industry. Take what you can get, while you can get it.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

When they park the last of them piece of ******************** Airbuses in the dessert, they'll bring the crew back on a DC-9. OLD SCHOOL BABY

 

[32LT10]

Dude, as far as airplanes go, age is not what makes them old, rather hours and cycles.

Agreed cycles are more worrisome than hours. And of course how well your mtc. has been performed is also a factor. In the case of JBLU the cycles should be very low due to long stage lengths they tend to fly. Not too many 30min to 1hour cycles on the airframe. You have the major carriers flying 777's, 767's and 747's for some astronomical hours in a day on average. Most of these airframes are older than the JBLU buses and yet they are still considered to have useful lives. Why is America West not throwing out 5 year old airplanes? How about Southwest? I have yet to see them throw away any of the 737NG's. Don't they have a high utilization rate also? Westjet thowing away airplanes?

Addicted to MX warrenties? Umm, YEAH!! What, would you prefer to pay out of pocket to have your car fixed, or have it covered under warrenty? I think a 3rd grader can answer that one.... Are you like alot of people I know who trade in prior to the end of a vehicles warrenty to get a shiney new one, covered for another 5 years? Same thing applies here. Is that an addiction, or smart business in this climate? No one has learned a dang thing abouth this industry. Take what you can get, while you can get it.

On this I disagree completely. Using your so called 3rd grade scenario what happens when you trade that car in at the end of the warranty period? Does the dealer pay you what you owe? How much did you put down on the vehicle? I would guess in 99% of the cases of trading in a vehicle the dealer makes out and the consumer winds up financing the left over cost from the difference in the trade in and the new vehicles cost. So tell me how saving $5 bucks on a mtc. is worth the thousands in finance cost and debt load?

"Take what you can get, while you can get it" is a fools promise of riches. At some point you have to pay the debt load.

 

[T1bubba]

Seriously though, the first three or four of our acft. have some serious hours and cycles on them. Bear in mind that we utilize our aircraft an average of 13+ hours a day. Multiply that by 365 days X 6.5 years. That's close to 31000 hours or more. By normal standards that is probably a lot of time and they have certainly served us well.

We have 737-300's that have been doing many more cycles and almost as many hours per day for over 20 years. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that any 6.5 year old aircraft has a lot of time.