JB pilots file with NMB

[elag777]

I think Splert means this part:

"Notwithstanding the foregoing, and in accordance with the terms of the Plan, the Airline reserves the right to amend the Plan or any future plan at any time and from time to time, or to terminate the Plan or any such plan, consistent with applicable legal requirements."

What say you Elaq?

I would have to say that they (the company) would have to terminate the plan in its entirety to avoid an individual pilot from signing a new amendment. The agreement renews every five years unless amended. As far as I recall pilots were not required to sign the latest amendment and are still covered by the language in the old one. “At any time” still has to be documented in an amendment and subsequently signed, or unless immediately terminated the agreement must be honored until its term is complete. I do believe it gives latitude in the event that the company enters significant financial distress and can no longer fund said 401K without throwing the entire PEA in the trash.

 

[starvingredtail]

Once again you show your lack of understanding of gov't systems and market systems.

Explain to the users of this message board HOW jB pilots will give up individual rights for the greater cause of the union?

As of now, they have ZERO rights! By voting in a union they gain rights under federal law, a voice, self representation, self governance... how is that communism or socialism?

Unions and HOAs don't claim to guarantee freedoms of the constitution. That is the purpose of our gov't. Why is it when you walk into a business, your second amendments are stripped? When you choose to function in a corporate domain you choose to give up your constitutional rights. There is no freedom of speech in Best Buy! Security will usher you out..




I am looking at it from an individual integrity standpoint... if democracy is good enough for our gov't structure and worth fighting for then why not in unions and HOA's?

Why would one vote in a gov't election but not a union election? Is the democracy different...?

Or is there a better way than democracy in our non-gov't domains?




And why should they? The gov't already guarantees individual rights. What unions do is copy the democratic example made possible by the FF. Why not recognize it, respect it and exercise it.... would that be........... American?

What unions do is guarantee rights in the corporate domain, the non-gov't domain, the workplace domain... because you have minimal and unsatisfactory rights in the workplace.




So the free market system that resulted in the Great Depression is gosh darn it, good ol golly Beaver Cleaver Mom and Apple pie? with over 25% of Americans out of work, I don't think there was much apple pie...

The current financial crises brought to us by free market capitalism is Mom and apple pie?


Once again I think you have a different American value system.

You value capitalism because you think it is American. Well it is.. but it is also Chinese.

What is exclusively American is democracy. And we use democracy to run our unions and HOA's. Sounds pretty American to me....

Rez,
I am going to run away from this fight because it is meaningless. I have explained myself. I have pointed out the differences you are ignoring. You have typically ignored that I am voting for the union, and that I still have an ALPA card and a pin with a star on it. Your rantings are like you are talking to yourself. I will take Bavarian Chiefs advice and recuse myself from your socialist binge. Enjoy Comarade!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
I am going to run away from this fight because it is meaningless. I have explained myself. I have pointed out the differences you are ignoring. You have typically ignored that I am voting for the union, and that I still have an ALPA card and a pin with a star on it. Your rantings are like you are talking to yourself. I will take Bavarian Chiefs advice and recuse myself from your socialist binge. Enjoy Comarade!

Let's not get personal, rather let's stick to the issue and debate. If you have a valid point, I want to hear.... perhaps learn something....


I am not questioning your understanding of and support of unions...

This has become a discussion of democracy and what it is...

Why am I on a socialist binge because I state that capitalism is not democracy...??



So I'll ask again.....

If capitalism is freedom, liberty, American and democracy, how does capitalism thrive in China where there is no democracy and liberty?


Why would we pride ourselves on being the worlds great democracy but be indifferent to democracy in other organizations? Is it American to be indifferent to democracy and elections?
​

 

[Splert]

I would have to say that they (the company) would have to terminate the plan in its entirety to avoid an individual pilot from signing a new amendment. The agreement renews every five years unless amended. As far as I recall pilots were not required to sign the latest amendment and are still covered by the language in the old one. “At any time” still has to be documented in an amendment and subsequently signed, or unless immediately terminated the agreement must be honored until its term is complete. I do believe it gives latitude in the event that the company enters significant financial distress and can no longer fund said 401K without throwing the entire PEA in the trash.

The PEA only summarizes what is currently in effect at the time of signing and continually points to The PLAN (SPD) as the document that determines the terms and conditions of our participation.

Notwithstanding this summary the airline reserves the right to amend The Plan at anytime.

Our 401K and PS are not guaranteed by our PEA. Our PS is not guaranteed. The matching percentages and PS can change at anytime without the need for an amended PEA. That is what first and third sentence spell out.

You are wrong elag777 and I suspect that you already know that.

Next question:

What does the PEA guarantee in terms of our Health Plan?

 

[elag777]

So I'll ask again.....

If capitalism is freedom, liberty, American and democracy, how does capitalism thrive in China where there is no democracy and liberty?​

The communist party is the only party there is. China doesn’t have freedom of speech or freedom of the press. It doesn’t tolerate dissent. Authorities can arrest and imprison people who threaten stability, as the party defines it. Any group that dares to protest is treated brutally. There are no civil liberties, no labor unions, no centers of political power outside the communist party. Capitalism is fixed and corrupt. If you fail as an industry leader you die, it thrives because it is the communist party and it feeds its very existance.

 

[elag777]

The PEA only summarizes what is currently in effect at the time of signing and continually points to The PLAN (SPD) as the document that determines the terms and conditions of our participation.

Notwithstanding this summary the airline reserves the right to amend The Plan at anytime.

Our 401K and PS are not guaranteed by our PEA. Our PS is not guaranteed. The matching percentages and PS can change at anytime without the need for an amended PEA. That is what first and third sentence spell out.

You are wrong elag777 and I suspect that you already know that.

Next question:

What does the PEA guarantee in terms of our Health Plan?

As with any agreement inside or ouside the scope of a CBA nothing is ever guaranteed....all you have to do is look at the contracts that were tossed out in the last round of bankruptcies. Maybe you should ask the USAir guys why their pension was not guaranteed. I don't think I am wrong, I just think you think you are right. Its your opinion and I respect that.

 

[Splert]

I guess that is your way of saying the company can change our 401K and PS plan at anytime without amending the PEA.

The difference between our PEA and OALs CBAs is that the SPD can not be changed unilaterially by the airline. At JetBlue the airline can change the SPD anytime (see our health care plan). They and you just try and sell it to others as if they can't.

Now that is the integrity value.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Let's not get personal, rather let's stick to the issue and debate. If you have a valid point, I want to hear.... perhaps learn something....


I am not questioning your understanding of and support of unions...

This has become a discussion of democracy and what it is...

Why am I on a socialist binge because I state that capitalism is not democracy...??



So I'll ask again.....

If capitalism is freedom, liberty, American and democracy, how does capitalism thrive in China where there is no democracy and liberty?​

Why would we pride ourselves on being the worlds great democracy but be indifferent to democracy in other organizations? Is it American to be indifferent to democracy and elections?​

Will you DORKS please take this to another thread?

Seriously, this thread is about JB and the NMB -- not a discussion about the Founding Fathers, God, the evolution of the Union, the Magna Carta, or whether Sleestacks on the TV show "The Land of the Lost" harmed an entire generation of children.

START ANOTHER F-IN THREAD YOU JAGNUTS.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I would have to say that they (the company) would have to terminate the plan in its entirety to avoid an individual pilot from signing a new amendment. The agreement renews every five years unless amended. As far as I recall pilots were not required to sign the latest amendment and are still covered by the language in the old one. “At any time” still has to be documented in an amendment and subsequently signed, or unless immediately terminated the agreement must be honored until its term is complete. I do believe it gives latitude in the event that the company enters significant financial distress and can no longer fund said 401K without throwing the entire PEA in the trash.

Huh? Why would it need to be a new amendment? They decide to stop the 5% PSP and they do, no amendment needed. What part of the PEA says they have to continue to honor it?

Better yet -- ask the company what they say about this. That is if you can get a straight answer.

Dude, your "I Believe Button" is big, red and shiny. And apparently too hard to resist.

 

[clickclickboom]

Will you DORKS please take this to another thread?

Seriously, this thread is about JB and the NMB -- not a discussion about the Founding Fathers, God, the evolution of the Union, the Magna Carta, or whether Sleestacks on the TV show "The Land of the Lost" harmed an entire generation of children.

START ANOTHER F-IN THREAD YOU JAGNUTS.

Chef you used to make me angry but now I love you that is some great $hit !!!!