JB files with NMB for representation

[ChuckDriver]

[QUOTEAdd to that I'm senior and get to bid 7 weeks before you bid any....[/QUOTE]

So the question is are you willing to give up a couple of your 7 summer weeks so the rest of us can have a chance at them?

This is why I want a CBA so we all can share the wealth so to say.

 

[Splert]

[QUOTEAdd to that I'm senior and get to bid 7 weeks before you bid any....

So the question is are you willing to give up a couple of your 7 summer weeks so the rest of us can have a chance at them?

This is why I want a CBA so we all can share the wealth so to say.[/QUOTE]

The issue is distribution then allocation then PTV then bidding.

Bidding is a issue but it is a minor issue compare to the overall short fall.

Borton line we are about 70% slots short in summer and holiday months based upon the longevity of the JetBlue pilot group compared to our peers.

For instance

 

[BeachBummer]

[QUOTEAdd to that I'm senior and get to bid 7 weeks before you bid any....

So the question is are you willing to give up a couple of your 7 summer weeks so the rest of us can have a chance at them?

This is why I want a CBA so we all can share the wealth so to say.[/QUOTE]

Under the current system no. If my seniority holds it we are stuck in the system available. But lucky for you guys I don't bid for vacation.

Your totally missing the point. It's not the fact that I'm senior enough to get the tidbits that are available and others are to junior. It's the fact that there's only tidbits.

Let's take mco on the 190 for example. There is only one slot per week allocated. I could literally wipe out the whole summer. Myself. It's not right and needs to be addressed. One of the many fixes the DR should have so nimbly been able to correct.

 

[Smarta$$]

I have to disagree. Bidding DOES matter. And, in addition to improving our allocation or vacation slots, I EXPECT AN INDUSTRY STANDARD BIDDING IN ROUNDS. You could double or triple the allocated premium weeks, but if you don't change our unlimited bidding, the premium weeks will be gone in the first 15% of bidders instead of the current 5% of bidders.

Bidding F*((^^^%% matters, that is why the rest of the industry doesn't do it like we do. Total windfall for the senior right now, and must be fixed along with allocation.

 

[Splert]

Bidding does not matter in the sense that the fix is free to the company

Allocation and distribution is not free. That fix will cost 200 more pilots.

That is why the company only wanted to fix bidding.

Of course bidding needs to be fixed but without allocation and distribution the company wins again and is why the company will blame the PVC for not "fixing vacation".

Thier fix is to bidding only.

 

[Smarta$$]

Bidding does not matter in the sense that the fix is free to the company

Allocation and distribution is not free. That fix will cost 200 more pilots.

That is why the company only wanted to fix bidding.

Of course bidding needs to be fixed but without allocation and distribution the company wins again and is why the company will blame the PVC for not "fixing vacation".

Thier fix is to bidding only.

Ok, so if your ONLY criteria for something to "matter" is if it inflicts pain on the company, then fine. If your criteria is improving the lives of a majority of pilots here at JB (you are senior, so this is NOT your priority), then you need ALL THREE LEGS OF THE STOOL. You need allocation, distribution, AND BIDDING.

Cost money, doesn't cost money... I care about fixing all three legs of the stool, and fixing this ponzi scheme of a bidding system that is a windfall for the top at the expense of everyone else.

 

[Splert]

Dude get a grip.

We get a 1/4 of the vacation of our peers. Without fixing allocation and distribution the bottom 85% will see no change by changing bidding to 2 weeks per bid.

It's math not emotion.

Grow up. The company wants the zero cost solution. Give it to them and they will stop talking about vacation fixes because they just fixed it.

My definition of fixed is all 4 legs of the stoll. Fixed for everyone.

 

[Blue Dude]

Yes, vacation bidding needs to be fixed, but that won't fix the problem. The company would be more than happy to (eventually) fix vacation bidding (spread the "wealth" around) and walk away from the real issue, which is unreasonably low allocation and wildly unrealistic distribution. Fixing bidding without anything else would have the effect of having vacation work for the top 5% to having it work for nobody. And I'm OK with with that, but not if that's where the process stops, which seems all too likely if we keep our half-a$$ed DR.

 

[Smarta$$]

Dude get a grip.

We get a 1/4 of the vacation of our peers. Without fixing allocation and distribution the bottom 85% will see no change by changing bidding to 2 weeks per bid.

It's math not emotion.

Grow up. The company wants the zero cost solution. Give it to them and they will stop talking about vacation fixes because they just fixed it.

My definition of fixed is all 4 legs of the stoll. Fixed for everyone.

You just said NOTHING ASSSSSHOLE. Nothing. The MATH, says that bidding DOES help a LOT of pilots. YOU are senior. You only want to fix the OTHER legs of the stool. Sorry, they ALL need to be fixed. Your Ponzi scheme will be over soon.... Just like DL, UAL, AA, SW....

 

[Smarta$$]

Yes, vacation bidding needs to be fixed, but that won't fix the problem. The company would be more than happy to (eventually) fix vacation bidding (spread the "wealth" around) and walk away from the real issue, which is unreasonably low allocation and wildly unrealistic distribution. Fixing bidding without anything else would have the effect of having vacation work for the top 5% to having it work for nobody. And I'm OK with with that, but not if that's where the process stops, which seems all too likely if we keep our half-a$$ed DR.

I said I want to fix bidding, allocation and distribution.

 

[CapnVegetto]

There is a reason the senior guys at JB are known as the "horrible hundred". JB has the greediest senior guys I have ever seen.

 

[Smarta$$]

There is a reason the senior guys at JB are known as the "horrible hundred". JB has the greediest senior guys I have ever seen.

Um, yep....

 

[BeachBummer]

You just said NOTHING ASSSSSHOLE. Nothing. The MATH, says that bidding DOES help a LOT of pilots. YOU are senior. You only want to fix the OTHER legs of the stool. Sorry, they ALL need to be fixed. Your Ponzi scheme will be over soon.... Just like DL, UAL, AA, SW....

I'm pretty sure no one said that we just want to fix... One thing.

Settle down big boy. It'll all get worked out in the wash. Unfortunately right now, we live with the current system.

Wow...

 

[XJohXJ]

how about some health coverage?

Wouldn't that be a nice thing to have as a major airline pilot?

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm pretty sure no one said that we just want to fix... One thing.

Settle down big boy. It'll all get worked out in the wash. Unfortunately right now, we live with the current system.

Wow...

My problem is with splert. And yes, he is minimizing (incorrectly) how much of an impact bidding has on a large proportion of our pilots. And yes, I agree allocation and distribution needs to be addressed as well.

 

[Splert]

I never said just fix everything but bidding.

Never implied it either. Not minimizing it either. I just understand that Jetblue would rather just fix bidding and JUST bidding.

If you thought I was minimizing it maybe you should have asked and I would say no.

Also I'm not senior.

0 for 3. You are out!!

 

[BeachBummer]

My problem is with splert. And yes, he is minimizing (incorrectly) how much of an impact bidding has on a large proportion of our pilots. And yes, I agree allocation and distribution needs to be addressed as well.

As usual, I think your wrong... But opinions are like waste sphincters... Every ones got one.

I'm pretty sure your over reacting and that wasn't what he implied. You sound like a whiny liberal hatin on the rich because they caused your problems...

It'll get fixed buddy. Don't sweat it.

 

[Splert]

Smarta$$ posted:

"majority of pilots"

"minimizing (incorrectly) how much of an impact bidding has on a large proportion"

"bidding DOES help a LOT of pilots"

Fixing bidding does non of this since the company allocates 1/2 to 1/4 the allocation of our peers and then distributes this severely reduced amount in such a manner that we get 1/4 the peak vacation slots available of our peers.

Jetblue wants everyone to focus on the zero cost solution - Bidding!

Moths to the flame and Smartpuck is leading the way. Gooooooooo to the flame ... I say stay away but the internet f bomb dropper says fly faster.

Oh well!

Zap!

 

[Smarta$$]

Smarta$$ posted:

"majority of pilots"

"minimizing (incorrectly) how much of an impact bidding has on a large proportion"

"bidding DOES help a LOT of pilots"

Fixing bidding does non of this since the company allocates 1/2 to 1/4 the allocation of our peers and then distributes this severely reduced amount in such a manner that we get 1/4 the peak vacation slots available of our peers.

Jetblue wants everyone to focus on the zero cost solution - Bidding!

Moths to the flame and Smartpuck is leading the way. Gooooooooo to the flame ... I say stay away but the internet f bomb dropper says fly faster.

Oh well!

Zap!

1. I said fix distribution and allocation as well.

2. If you only fix distribution and allocation, and not bidding, those additional premium weeks will just be sucked up by the top anyway. Some of the less desirable premium weeks may trickle down a little farther, but not nearly as far down the list as our peers with vacation bidding rounds.

 

[Splert]

Yep ...

That is what I have been advocating and recommended to the WRC via the formal request process.

What have you done? Drop F and A bombs on FI.com. Yeah for you!

 

[Smarta$$]

Yep ...

That is what I have been advocating and recommended to the WRC via the formal request process.

What have you done? Drop F and A bombs on FI.com. Yeah for you!

So you say on the internet.

 

[Splert]

You are now 0 for 4 but you keep swinging.

Sooner or later you should change your screen name from "Smart" to "Suck" A$$

Here is a clue. There about 10 posters on this forum who know who I am.

Not one of them have grabbed a vine to say he is indeed senior or he certainly did not submit all vacation fixes to the WRC.

Keep swinging though. You are good at missing.

 

[B6Driver]

Guy, please give it a rest.

 

[ChuckDriver]

Just for arguments sake, lets look at this example. Company X offers 1000 weeks vacation, with no limit to weeks bid by the pilot group. Lets say each pilot has enough PTO to bid for 5 weeks. Doing the math ony the top 200 will get vacation. Now lets limit the bidding to 2 weeks and 500 of our brothers get vacation!

Whats so wrong with this way of doing it? You senior guys dont want to share or what?

 

[linepilot]

Vacation?

Really?

This is why the lambs at jetblew will always be sucking hind t!t behind the real pilots in the industry.

They'll always be happy with scraps (union or no union) because that's the kind of people they are.

 

[B6Driver]

So bitterness is your plan now?

 

[Splert]

Company X has 1000 pilots so does company Y

At Company Y they have:
250 have between 1 - 4 years longevity
250 have between 5 and 9 years
250 have greater than 10-14 years
250 have greater than 15 years

Company Y has a allocation formula where

2 weeks for pilots between 1 - 4 years longevity
3 weeks for pilots between 5 and 9 years
4 weeks for pilots between 10 -1 4 years
5 weeks for pilots greater than 15 years

Company Y ALLOCATES: 3500 vacation weeks over 52 weeks of the year.

Company Y also distributes a MINIMUM of 8% of the Annual ALLOCATION in June, July, August, November and Dec. This translates to 280 vacation slots in these months.

Company X however has the same number of pilot with the same longevity and only allocates 1000 weeks (2 weeks per pilot) over 48 weeks of the year and distributes 30 vacation weeks per month (3%) in June, July, Aug, Nov and December and 250 weeks each month in Sept and October.

Company X is jetblue.

Company Y is the agreed to peer set.

Yeah lets blame pilots (senior pilots) and only fix bidding.

 

[Vingus]

Company X has 1000 pilots so does company Y

At Company Y they have:
250 have between 1 - 4 years longevity
250 have between 5 and 9 years
250 have greater than 10-14 years
250 have greater than 15 years

Company Y has a allocation formula where

2 weeks for pilots between 1 - 4 years longevity
3 weeks for pilots between 5 and 9 years
4 weeks for pilots between 10 -1 4 years
5 weeks for pilots greater than 15 years

Company Y ALLOCATES: 3500 vacation weeks over 52 weeks of the year.

Company Y also distributes a MINIMUM of 8% of the Annual ALLOCATION in June, July, August, November and Dec. This translates to 280 vacation slots in these months.

Company X however has the same number of pilot with the same longevity and only allocates 1000 weeks (2 weeks per pilot) over 48 weeks of the year and distributes 30 vacation weeks per month (3%) in June, July, Aug, Nov and December and 250 weeks each month in Sept and October.

Company X is jetblue.

Company Y is the agreed to peer set.

Yeah lets blame pilots (senior pilots) and only fix bidding.

I don't know why I'm going to engage but.....

No one has said just fix bidding. It all needs fixing. Give it a rest.

 

[Splert]

Am I reading ChuckDriver at #54 incorrectly?

Just for arguments sake, lets look at this example. Company X offers 1000 weeks vacation, with no limit to weeks bid by the pilot group. Lets say each pilot has enough PTO to bid for 5 weeks. Doing the math ony the top 200 will get vacation. Now lets limit the bidding to 2 weeks and 500 of our brothers get vacation!

Whats so wrong with this way of doing it? You senior guys dont want to share or what?

 

[BeachBummer]

#^?? it...
I'm voting no. And I don't want vacation fixed. Screw the junior guy. I got mine. I'm going to bid FO forever so I'm super senior for the next 30 years!

Ugh... Really. Senior vs junior now?

If your junior on the list suck it up. Think your gonna get 4th of July off your second year at Delta? AA? united? No, your not.

Smarta$$ just likes to hear himself type for sake of argument.

Chuck wagon, don't make stupid statements...