It's official. Pinnacle mgt asking for 5% paycut for pilots

[Flyer1015]

Pinnacle pilots, check your Airmail by logging in and clicking on the Airmail button. Read the article. Hopefully the union brass have balls, or we're all taking a 5% base paycut. And not only that, its stated that there is NO plans to reinstate that 5% cut in the future. A permanent 5% paycut!

WOO HOO here we gooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Flyer1015]

In addition to the 5 percent pay cut, the most
material thing we’re asking for is a more manageable implementation
agreement for the pilot integrated seniority list (ISL). Due to ongoing
discussions with ALPA, I can’t go into detail, but it’s an important part
of our plans.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: 11-09 is what has really screwed us up, and while both Colgan and Mesaba gained immensely at the expense of Pinnacle, 11-09 needs to go away and be redone better.

 

[suupah]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: 11-09 is what has really screwed us up, and while both Colgan and Mesaba gained immensely at the expense of Pinnacle, 11-09 needs to go away and be redone better.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...igh-probability-of-bankruptcy-maxim-says.html


i think 11-09 is spendy but there is more to it. i think that Dlta is trying to give us the ax by intentionally driving up the costs and i bet they will make pncl fight for the supposed "reimbursement" until they run out of money. dirty pool

 

[Flyprdu]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...igh-probability-of-bankruptcy-maxim-says.html


i think 11-09 is spendy but there is more to it. i think that Dlta is trying to give us the ax by intentionally driving up the costs and i bet they will fight for the sopposed "reimbursement" until they run out of money. dirty pool

Why would Delta even consider paying to train United/Continental Connection pilots when they don't really have to?

No one thought this through.

 

[suupah]

Why would Delta even consider paying to train United/Continental Connection pilots when they don't really have to?

No one thought this through.

true. but the constant schedule changes have cost pncl a lot of money and there seems to be no point to it other than to bankrupt them.

 

[RJLoser]

Fences: no more upgrades on the jets for Colgan!!

 

[altimaklr]

Exactly. How about we stop wasting money training colgan pilots on jets?

Recall votes for any union rep who votes yes on this crap.

 

[Flyer1015]

Fences: no more upgrades on the jets for Colgan!!

Amen! They already have a fence for their Saabs, and not a single Mesaba captain got Colgan Saab. And the Q is heavily fenced too, with very little movement of jet guys into props. Why should we train and waste money On these guys so they can come to jets? Time to stop the bleeding and fence the jets for colgan!

 

[RJLoser]

That's what they want to do

 

[hou757]

Don't do it. Let them cancel flying the flying they can't afford.. This is the problem with this industry.

 

[Redtailer]

true. but the constant schedule changes have cost pncl a lot of money and there seems to be no point to it other than to bankrupt them.

Suupah, you are thinking too much like a pilot and putting far too much importance on what is going on in that bubble called PNCL. Much like when many pilots think that management are out to get them. Ok, sometimes they are, but in most cases they are making business decisions that negatively affect the pilot. IOW, we are not as important as we like to think we are where management feels the need to constantly screw us on purpose. They do it enough by accident everyday.

Delta didn't do anything to intentionally cause the bankruptcy of PNCL. If you truly look at the changes that have taken place across the system then you will see that PNCL is not the only one being jerked around. Everyone is having to shift the chairs around due to shifts in flying. That includes all of the contract carriers and mainline. So while that may have an effect on PNCL it wasn't done to deliberately bankrupt the company, it was a business decision.

It's not about to get any better. With the new NY flying things are going to get worse, not better.

 

[dingo222]

Fences: no more upgrades on the jets for Colgan!!

Yes, because all colgan pilots want to fly the jet. Actually, only 10% bid it without being displaced, but dont let me get you wrong. Everyone wants your jet. While you are worried about who gets the upgrade, Menke is raiding you company, 401K, asking for concessions etc. If you were are Pinncale pilot, you haven't seen a significant raise since 99. If you are a Mesaba pilot, it's status quo since 04. If you are a colgan pilot, it's the lottery. You gained a pay raise, while your cohorts have taken losses or stayed the same. But dont count out the Colgans. Not all of then were hired post 08. It's time to take a stand. Remember the "paid in full " shirts handed out 3 years ago? 121 million to pay off our debt?

Non represented groups are getting a pay freeze while you are asked to give up 5%. Fair? I don't think so. 3000 pilots paid some sort of price to get where we are today. Pinnacle in lost wages, mesaba in concessionary wages, or colgan in slave wages. Take your pick. Good luck

 

[xjhawk]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: 11-09 is what has really screwed us up, and while both Colgan and Mesaba gained immensely at the expense of Pinnacle, 11-09 needs to go away and be redone better.

flyer you are high! on drugs, oh and a jack hole.

wake up and smell what you are cooking, so you still think "all" of mesaba gained from all of this, hey jerk, it was only the precious top 1/4 that gained in the SLI, and in 11-09 was a disaster for most of our FO's and jr captains.....I might say JR captains because we lost seniority to both Pinnacle and most definitely Colgan.

poor poor flyer........come on over and let me slap some sense into you.....are you this delusional when you work? I hope not, you might be a danger to us all

 

[xjhawk]

Oh I might add I vote no. The will ask for 5% AND if our union are fools, they will give it faster than Block stole my seniority (longevity). The company also wants concessions on the 11-09 award. The only way they can do that is to go against Blocks decision. So if our union agrees to that, that should in effect negate the entire award. Maybe I will get my seniority back!

Along that line of thought, hey guess what will happen after we give 5%? A bankruptcy with any ole judge will rape the 11-09 award as the training will cost too much. Good luck on bidding where your seniority can hold!

Oh and for you clueless idiots out there....flyer this one is for you......if you are so mad about mesaba and our saabs being taken away and that being a drag on your career, guess what? your 150 crj's that Delta will take away by 2017 (sooner if they can in a 9E bankruptcy) is way worse than a few Saabs! Jesus christ I cannot beleive every captain at 9E was placed above all around my seniority! even with all the saabs leaving, the flow, and normal attrition I was assured a Jet captain position, but now, with all your crjs leaving, I am a JR Fo at best with Pinnacle having only 900's and Q's......this is the road I see ahead of us...worse case scenerio

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Hehehhe. Airmail. That's cute guys.

 

[Flyer1015]

flyer you are high! on drugs, oh and a jack hole.

wake up and smell what you are cooking, so you still think "all" of mesaba gained from all of this, hey jerk, it was only the precious top 1/4 that gained in the SLI, and in 11-09 was a disaster for most of our FO's and jr captains.....I might say JR captains because we lost seniority to both Pinnacle and most definitely Colgan.

poor poor flyer........come on over and let me slap some sense into you.....are you this delusional when you work? I hope not, you might be a danger to us all

XJ, what year were you physically hired?

Whether you like it or not, 11-09 will have to be redone or modified severely, through either a union concession or by a bankruptcy judge. A matter of when, not if!

Oh I might add I vote no. The will ask for 5% AND if our union are fools, they will give it faster than Block stole my seniority (longevity). The company also wants concessions on the 11-09 award. The only way they can do that is to go against Blocks decision. So if our union agrees to that, that should in effect negate the entire award. Maybe I will get my seniority back!

Along that line of thought, hey guess what will happen after we give 5%? A bankruptcy with any ole judge will rape the 11-09 award as the training will cost too much. Good luck on bidding where your seniority can hold!

Agreed with above! Vote NO!

Oh and for you clueless idiots out there....flyer this one is for you......if you are so mad about mesaba and our saabs being taken away and that being a drag on your career, guess what? your 150 crj's that Delta will take away by 2017 (sooner if they can in a 9E bankruptcy) is way worse than a few Saabs! Jesus christ I cannot beleive every captain at 9E was placed above all around my seniority! even with all the saabs leaving, the flow, and normal attrition I was assured a Jet captain position, but now, with all your crjs leaving, I am a JR Fo at best with Pinnacle having only 900's and Q's......this is the road I see ahead of us...worse case scenerio

XJhawk, true, but 2017 is still 6 years away, and that's a loooong time in terms of regional airline industry. In 2003, Air Wis renewed their BAE-146 contract with United Express. 6 years later, not only were the BAEs long gone, but they were a US Air Express carrier. We'll worry about 2017 when it gets here. Here's a fact for your ignorant mind: Pinnacle by itself was never facing bankruptcy. Only after buying two carriers, one of them parking 40% of its fleet, then allowing *everyone* to move around what their seniority allows them to hold did we find ourselves in a serious cash crunch. Delta will not reimburse us as everyone is expecting for this merger, and they shouldn't. If I was a Delta executive, I would not be giving out money to reimburse a Colgan pilot's movement, or any US Air/UniCal movement.

You are correct about our future. If we declare BK, which I think will happen regardless of whether or not we give the 5%, the CRJ-200 contracts are all up to be cut. Delta will excercise their option, they've made it clear they want to reduce the 50-seat jets, and this will give them an easy way to do it. I don't think we'll lose every single CRJ-200, but we will lose plenty.

 

[altimaklr]

Plenty of XJ pilots benefited besides the top 25%. The Saabs were gone no matter what, and now we have plenty of happy SF3CA taking all the upgrade spots that would have been going to pinnacle pilots. If it wasn't for 9E there would have been massive downgrades and furloughs at XJ.

 

[Flyer1015]

Plenty of XJ pilots benefited besides the top 25%. The Saabs were gone no matter what, and now we have plenty of happy SF3CA taking all the upgrade spots that would have been going to pinnacle pilots. If it wasn't for 9E there would have been massive downgrades and furloughs at XJ.

The above is true. XJHawk, what do you think Mesaba would have looked like if it was just 41 CRJ-900s and 19 CRJ-200s? Downgrades and furloughs.

 

[Raskal]

Vote no...that's a laugh.

1. 96% of the group voted yes on this contract

2. Look at who's driving the MEC now, look real hard at the history during other financial hardships, look hard at the results...you'll see exactly where this is going, and it won't stop at 5%.

I agree, vote no, over and over.

The time has come to burn it down, but we don't have the balls of the American union to say no and force the company's hand.

 

[GOULET!]

This is all part of Delta's grand scheme to force Pinnacle into Bankrupcy so it can rid itself of even more CRJs. Sucks for you guys but definetly needed.

 

[FOrever85]

Flyer,

Give it a rest.

Delta/Northwest was going to smash us together no matter what. They came up with that plan before you were even hired. So, you, hawk, and every other person still spouting this "If this merger never had happened I would be......" STOP.

THERE IS AND NEVER WAS ANOTHER OPTION!!! THIS IS WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!! IT HAPPENED. GET OVER IT!

Now on to the topic at hand;

Just say no.

Bankruptcy wasn't that bad last time, I'm ready to do it again.

Actually, we don't need to worry General Lee was suppose to tell me how we can scope all our Delta flying so we won't lose any of it.
Please General tell us poor regional folks how to stay out of bankruptcy.

 

[altimaklr]

Ahh another regional FO who thinks he's a business guru

 

[Flyer1015]

Flyer,

Give it a rest.

Delta/Northwest was going to smash us together no matter what. They came up with that plan before you were even hired. So, you, hawk, and every other person still spouting this "If this merger never had happened I would be......" STOP.

THERE IS AND NEVER WAS ANOTHER OPTION!!! THIS IS WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!! IT HAPPENED. GET OVER IT!

Now on to the topic at hand;

Just say no.

Bankruptcy wasn't that bad last time, I'm ready to do it again.

Actually, we don't need to worry General Lee was suppose to tell me how we can scope all our Delta flying so we won't lose any of it.
Please General tell us poor regional folks how to stay out of bankruptcy.

Actually, NWA and Delta didn't even merge until 2008, and I was hired well before that time. My original binders still say "Northwest Airlink." And bankruptcy wasn't "that bad last time" sentiment better dissipate quick, or you're in for a bad surprise.

 

[altimaklr]

It's no use flyer. Some XJ still have a superiority complex about themselves and NW/DL, and will never admit their pilot group was 6 months away from being the next comair before pinnacle bought them.

 

[xjhawk]

flyer..I was hired in 2003. and MEsaba is not the reason for pinnacles mismanagement. I do not blame the fine pinnacle pilots that I know.....I may not like the idiots who hate and blame the mesaba pilots....but I do not blame the pilots. There is a big difference between you and me, I am not blaming the pinnacle pilots as you do to us.

And as for you ALTMAKLR, you think MEsaba would have been worse off if we were not bought by Pinnacle? You are crazy. okay so we would have furloughed and there would have been some down grades. Then we would have rebid for more flying somewhere. Oh wait, there will most likely be furloughs if we lose crj 200's and down grades. What is the big difference? Well all but the top 1/4 of mesaba did not fair well on the SLI. those in my group 01-04 hires lost a lot. If we lose 50 seaters and go down to a 900 and Q fleet, I will be a JR FO at best with my new ALPA ized seniority at Pinnacle while if we were not Pinnacle and I had my pre ALPA/BLOCK seniority, I would have been a downgraded captain to a SEnior FO in my home town with a look to upgrading when the flows started again. but.....we will never know...

 

[Flyprdu]

you think MEsaba would have been worse off if we were not bought by Pinnacle? You are crazy. okay so we would have furloughed and there would have been some down grades.

This is the funniest response I've ever read. I didn't know they let schizophrenics fly airplanes. Oh and XJHawk, there is nothing stopping you from downgrading yourself now. Go spend some time with the kiddos.

There's a lot of finger pointing going on in this thread, I might as well join in.

Here's who I blame:

• Pinnacle management for having no ideas.
• Mesaba management for having only terrible, stupid, and costly ideas.
• Phil Trenary for pointing the plane at the ground and pulling the eject handle. "Your controls."
• Don Breeding for spending more time on the golf course than putting out the flames at the company.
• Sean Menke for letting the union run the integration with little or no regard for the bottom line. Only now when they realized they're broke is he intervening. Too little, too late. You can't have my paycheck.
• Mesaba's MEC for being rigid and inflexible in creating an integration plan. And whipping up some dumb*ss ideas, like 11-09. What better way to kill a regional airline than to flush the whole d*mn seniority system. Way to go, guys. Way to go.
• Mesaba in general. If it had been profitable to Delta, then they wouldn't have wanted to spin you off. Mesaba was, and still is, an obvious drain to whichever parent company owns it.
• Phil Trenary again. It was pure ego and hubris of Nonconnah that made them think they could save the Saabs. They thought they could do anything. Boy, they were wrong.
• Pinnacle's negotiating team. First for proposing a stupid, lopsided plan. Second, for not having their crap together. Third, for thinking that arbitration was a good idea. And last, for not fighting back when the fences were awarded so disproportionately. But hey, vacations are important too.
• All the Colgan pilots with shiny jet syndrome who decided to overload the training department by crossing over. I hope that extra 5 bucks/hr in the CRJ was worth a 5% giveback and a Chapter 11 filing.

Did I leave anyone out?

 

[CRJ200pilot]

I just quit!

Merry Christmas

 

[FOrever85]

Ahh another regional FO who thinks he's a business guru

Sweet, every single word in your reply was wrong.

"It's no use flyer. Some XJ still have a superiority complex about themselves and NW/DL, and will never admit their pilot group was 6 months away from being the next comair before pinnacle bought them. "


Superiority complex?

We've been getting the crapped kicked out of us for the majority of the decade. The simple fact remains; we were going to be merged together. Doesn't take a business guru to figure that one out.

Sorry you can't deal with reality.

Pinnacle (and I mean that collectively) will probably be the next Comair.

You think it is just a coincidence that you got sent out to JFK?

JFK: the base Delta sends regional airlines to die.

 

[FOrever85]

Actually, NWA and Delta didn't even merge until 2008, and I was hired well before that time. My original binders still say "Northwest Airlink." And bankruptcy wasn't "that bad last time" sentiment better dissipate quick, or you're in for a bad surprise.

Yeah, but they came up with all this s*&t in 05, (Coincidence that XJ was in bankruptcy too, I think not.)

And what bad surprise is that?

I've been through this crap for 12 years. I'm really not jumping on you, I'm trying to tell all of you to relax. I got all upset during the last bankruptcy and you know what? It was a huge waste of time.

This whole thing is going to take a while, and frankly there isn't much you or I can do about it.

 

[Smarta$$]

This is the funniest response I've ever read. I didn't know they let schizophrenics fly airplanes. Oh and XJHawk, there is nothing stopping you from downgrading yourself now. Go spend some time with the kiddos.

There's a lot of finger pointing going on in this thread, I might as well join in.

Here's who I blame:

• Pinnacle management for having no ideas.
• Mesaba management for having only terrible, stupid, and costly ideas.
• Phil Trenary for pointing the plane at the ground and pulling the eject handle. "Your controls."
• Don Breeding for spending more time on the golf course than putting out the flames at the company.
• Sean Menke for letting the union run the integration with little or no regard for the bottom line. Only now when they realized they're broke is he intervening. Too little, too late. You can't have my paycheck.
• Mesaba's MEC for being rigid and inflexible in creating an integration plan. And whipping up some dumb*ss ideas, like 11-09. What better way to kill a regional airline than to flush the whole d*mn seniority system. Way to go, guys. Way to go.
• Mesaba in general. If it had been profitable to Delta, then they wouldn't have wanted to spin you off. Mesaba was, and still is, an obvious drain to whichever parent company owns it.
• Phil Trenary again. It was pure ego and hubris of Nonconnah that made them think they could save the Saabs. They thought they could do anything. Boy, they were wrong.
• Pinnacle's negotiating team. First for proposing a stupid, lopsided plan. Second, for not having their crap together. Third, for thinking that arbitration was a good idea. And last, for not fighting back when the fences were awarded so disproportionately. But hey, vacations are important too.
• All the Colgan pilots with shiny jet syndrome who decided to overload the training department by crossing over. I hope that extra 5 bucks/hr in the CRJ was worth a 5% giveback and a Chapter 11 filing.

Did I leave anyone out?

Interesting read. But, your list is too biased against mesaba, and ignores 9E pilots failures throughout the process. 9E management and 9E pilots are primarily to blame... The original management, not Sean so much.