Its October and NO recalls at AA.

[Freight Dog]

If you go down that path, make sure your vacation credit is a nice big number. Otherwise, you'll take a 14 day vacation, and come back having to fly 2 more trips that month in order to be within the bid window.

 

[aa73]

Recalls at United didn't start until Nov '04, and that was a total of 40, including mil leave recalls. There a few classes in '05 that started in Mar.

And don't forget all of the early retirements prior to losing the pension.
We had about 10,500 pilots on the seniority list pre-911. We're now at less than 8500, including all furloughees - less than 7000 active pilots.

Andy,

The difference between UAL and AA is this - UAL has no desire to shrink or park airplanes. Therefore, they had to recall to fill the void of retirements.

AA's plan is to shrink down to about 500 jets. We currently have over 600. What better way to accomplish that than to park jets as pilots retire. And that is what they've been sticking to.

They also will not recall pilots, thereby letting the pilots "win", until we sign the new contract. APA has every intention on dragging its feet, since we are in early openers (contract not amendable until 2008.) Therefore, I don't think we'll be seeing recalls and the stopping of shrinkage until at least then. And that's fine - shrink away, folks, and keep losing market share. See if we care. (Hey that rhymes.)

73

 

[SellingDirt]

I think you will see AA reduce by about 3-5% per year until middle of 08'. Gives them time to negotiate out the new contract, expires the recall rights of TWA F/A's and get's the fleet closer to 500 A/C. IMHO

 

[Andy]

Do you have any info on PBS, letters from UAL ALPA or individual pilots experiencing what UAL management has done with PBS?

No, I sure don't. I can tell you that the pilots on property were easy pickins for management on this one. Not many understood how heinous life could be under PBS. They know now. No open time, no way to drop trips, junior guys getting crappy schedules and being forced to fly max hours. Even senior guys getting crappy schedules.
While PBS is a win for management, it's a huge loss for the pilots.

I don't know who 75M works for, but if he had UAL's system in place at his airline, he'd be saying that PBS suks rocks.

 

[SellingDirt]

Been under both systems (including 2 different PBS) and PBS wins hands down!!!!! nuff said.....

 

[Zipperhead]

PBS is great, however its parameters are tweaked and tailored for each airline according to it's contract and work rules. UAL's work rules were gutted on the narrowbody fleet and the guys are feeling the pain using PBS. I've been at 2 airlines that have PBS and it is a good thing, once you try it, you will most likely agree.

 

[eaglefly]

Been under both systems (including 2 different PBS) and PBS wins hands down!!!!! nuff said.....

You haven't spent any appreciable time under the roof in question.

In those hands, PBS would be a "hands down" FALIURE.

......also a disaster.

It will never see the light of day at Eagle.......not sure about Ralphie baby and his dudes, though..............

 

[AA717driver]

Dante would cringe at the thought of PBS operated by AMR.

75M is former TWA. He's currently employed as a security guard at Club Rio on W. 38th St. TC

P.S.--75M you in town Sat. night? Wife's gone for the weekend and I've got a babysitter...

 

[ultrarunner]

UAL got an additional 20-25% efficiency out of their pilots with those work rule changes.

As a shareholder, you'd be hard-pressed to be bummed about that, wouldn't you?

 

[NuGuy]

Andy,

Thanks for the other information you sent me. Do you have any info on PBS, letters from UAL ALPA or individual pilots experiencing what UAL management has done with PBS? I would like to put them on our unions message board to give them an idea of what to really expect if we go down that path.

Thanks

AA

Heyas AA,

NWA pilots have lived with PBS for almost 10 years now. It used to rock...best thing since sliced bread and all that, and now it sux so bad it isn't even funny. It has degenerated into an automated trip assignment process.

It's ALL about the work rules and control of the parameters. BE SURE TO CONTROL YOUR OPEN TIME! If you let the company get away with less than a certain amount, or let your average day go down, your lines will stink no matter how fancy the program is.

Nu