Is this profession in peril?

[tomgoodman]

Better odds, smaller prize

We should probably keep in mind that career prospects weren't so hot in the past either. Pay and benefits at majors were fine, if you could get and keep a job there. Regionals hardly existed, so military service was needed to be competitive for an interview, and there were thousands of ex-military applicants. If you got hired, your airline might have been one of the many which no longer exist.

Choosing an airline career has always been a gamble; there used to be larger jackpots but fewer winners.

 

[CitationUltra]

I believe the last time I saw doctor's strike was about five years ago in Pennsylvania. Could be wrong on the state. They went on strike to protest outrageously high malpractice insurance. Cannot remember the last time my pilot group went on strike. Thats right, we never have. We continue to give and give! I just googled doctors strke america. Not only have doctors struck, they have picketed as well. You were saying?

And who are they picketing against? Their clients or patients? The "system"? I must say, I have never witnessed a picket line made up of lawyers or doctors.

There is a major difference, in any case. Doctors and lawyers are essentially self-employed professionals. Pilots, on the other hand, are employees. IN that regard, they are not much different than any other employee. Employers, i.e., airline managements, have exploited that by pitching labor groups within the companies against each other, and at that they have been quite successful.

 

[CitationUltra]

We should probably keep in mind that career prospects weren't so hot in the past either. Pay and benefits at majors were fine, if you could get and keep a job there. Regionals hardly existed, so military service was needed to be competitive for an interview, and there were thousands of ex-military applicants. If you got hired, your airline might have been one of the many which no longer exist.

Choosing an airline career has always been a gamble; there used to be larger jackpots but fewer winners.

Right on all points. The real winners were those whose number in the seniority lottery enabled them to remain employed and never furloughed.

 

[waveflyer]

it's not in peril... how dramatic- i won't even read this thread--

there is an infrastructure alive in this global economy that depends on aviation-= The problem is when will we as pilots choose not to sell each other out- get unified and do something about the decrease in wages?

Like an alcoholic=- when will we reach bottom enough to get off our arse and stand up for ourselves...

Traffic is scheduled to massively increase, VLJ's are comin-- the jobs will be there-
The question is- like at the regionals- will we make these jobs good jobs or bad jobs? To me - it centers on how well senior people at majors look out for and provide leadership for junior guys... Screwing them is what has got us in this mess. When one pilot struggles and is on survival mode-= that affects all of us b/c of what they are now willing to do to stay flying... looking out for the junior and disenfranchised sends so many messages that gain us leverage it's not even funny...

When will we hit bottom? You tell me...

 

[Flopgut]

No, you have an apathetic, uninformed membership. That's 99% of your problem.

I've been in other unions. Members aren't 99% of our problem. Maybe 10%....Leadership is 90% of the problem.

 

[800Dog]

And who are they picketing against? Their clients or patients? The "system"? I must say, I have never witnessed a picket line made up of lawyers or doctors.

There is a major difference, in any case. Doctors and lawyers are essentially self-employed professionals. Pilots, on the other hand, are employees. IN that regard, they are not much different than any other employee. Employers, i.e., airline managements, have exploited that by pitching labor groups within the companies against each other, and at that they have been quite successful.

No argument here. Just pointing out the guy who seemed to think doctors never picket or strike was wrong.

 

[PCL_128]

I've been in other unions. Members aren't 99% of our problem. Maybe 10%....Leadership is 90% of the problem.

It must be nice to just stick your head in the sand and pretend that others are responsible for all of your problems. But sadly, it doesn't jive with reality. If the membership wants to know what's wrong with their union, then they need to pull their heads out of the sand and look in a mirror.

 

[CitationUltra]

I've been in other unions. Members aren't 99% of our problem. Maybe 10%....Leadership is 90% of the problem.

You're probably right, but we've had nearly thirty years to effect a change in leadership and it's never happened.

Why is that?

Is it because those truly qualified and capable do not want the job? Or is it because the wrong people seek these jobs? People who want the job for the wrong reasons? (I've personally seen this phenomenon over and over again.)

 

[Flopgut]

Generational? Cultural? I'm not sure. ALPA used to be better. For instance, Merger policy functioned once upon a time! Then UAL showed everybody they could ignore it and screwed their fellow members.

Our biggest crisis: The guys who talk like Rez and and PCL are the ones who end up doing the most damage! We have to deal with that. They start out with the fundamentalist ALPA message, get elected/promoted, and then they do the worst. The thesis that it's the members who suck and ALPA leadership is without fault/responsibility is completely wrong.

 

[Lear70]

It's a shared responsibility.

I'll tell you what: show me a union that is OVERSTAFFED with volunteers, that has to TURN PILOTS AWAY who want to be on committees, can pick and choose from the best, brightest, and most-suitable for those jobs, and also who has a better than 90% turnout of "available" pilots (those who aren't at work) for picketing events, MEC quarterly meetings (the important ones), and has a more than 90% vote turnout for EVERY vote, and I'll shut up about membership involvement.

If you don't have that, then it's the MEMBERSHIP that has a problem.

Leadership is required to inform the pilots of "what" is needed, "when" it's needed, and "why" it's needed.

Membership then bears the responsibility to get off their butts and get their tails to whatever event was important for them to attend.

Without that kind of solidarity, you could have the best Leadership in the world and you won't accomplish jack crap.

When pilots realize this, maybe we'll gain some ground again. Personally, I don't think it'll happen. The majority simply can't be "bothered", and want everyone else to do it for them so they can just "come to work and go home". Want to be a blue collar worker? That's the attitude to have... Want things to change? Get off your A S S and work for it.

/rant

p.s. History has shown us that the regional guys aren't going anywhere. Mesaba and Eagle are excellent examples; I know guys who have been there 12-14 YEARS and stick around, holding out for that flow-through or eventual Major interview.

Don't count on attrition to solve your problem. Guys are sticking around, even with crap wages.

 

[PCL_128]

There you have it guys! A guy that's far from being an ALPA cheerleader telling you that membership apathy is at the heart of the problem.
Great post, Lear!!!

 

[waveflyer]

what has the leadership done to inspire participation pcl? b/c i can think of a lot of things that union leadership has done that has inspired the apathy. What you and Rez do constantly is one of them- and management couldn't love you more for it-- rail on those you supposedly lead.

None of you has thought to adopt any of the organizational behavior techniques taught in any basic business degree... And that is pretty dumb. Do us all a favor and don't get involved w/ air tran's politics holding that attitude.

It is an unarguable point that GOOD LEADERSHIP CAN SOLVE APATHY- why you stick to your guns on this and continue to do something that actively contributes to apathy- i have no clue- but STOP!

This goes for everyone- Stop crying and blaming and DO SOMETHING. This career will be what we make it. If you believe it's in the toilet and hang your head- then it will only slide farther... Get positive, get to work- and make it what it should be- none of the problems we face- INCLUDING APATHY- are unsolvable.

 

[PCL_128]

what has the leadership done to inspire participation pcl?

Pilots shouldn't need to be "inspired" to be involved in their own careers. I'm not exactly sure what you think Prater can do to get you off your ass. If what has happened to labor and this profession over the past seven years hasn't "inspired" you to get involved, then nothing will.

and management couldn't love you more for it

You might want to ask the former CP and the rest of the Pinnacle management team about that. I can assure you that their feelings for me are far from "loving." Loathing would be more accurate.

This goes for everyone- Stop crying and blaming and DO SOMETHING

The ironic thing here is that the only people in this thread that have actually done what you suggest are Lear, Rez, Occam and me. The rest of you simply rest on your laurels and complain about the leadership. If you have a problem with the leadership, then get off your ass and become the leadership. We already have.

 

[Flopgut]

It's a shared responsibility.

I'll tell you what: show me a union that is OVERSTAFFED with volunteers, that has to TURN PILOTS AWAY who want to be on committees, can pick and choose from the best, brightest, and most-suitable for those jobs, and also who has a better than 90% turnout of "available" pilots (those who aren't at work) for picketing events, MEC quarterly meetings (the important ones), and has a more than 90% vote turnout for EVERY vote, and I'll shut up about membership involvement.

I think we can look no further than ALPA's past. UALALPA functions used to be standing room only; They were operating at avery high level. What happened? UALALPA grew to believe they were ALPA. And National let them do whatever they wanted to the detriment of the union.

That sort of behavior has become the norm.

 

[Flopgut]

Biggest problem at this moment: The guys running things have a fundamental difference of vision. Prater believes there are two different futures right now. Prater wants to trade on every hot issue of the day to hoard for his generation. He simultaneously believes the next generation of pilots are a near lost cause and too expensive to champion. TD at CAL was the same sort and we just got rid of him, thankfully.