Is This Normal?

[FN FAL]

Other than practical purposes, I just can't understand why someone would intentionally land off centerline, unless they're lazy or unskilled.

Tom

Our policy manual states to keep the nose wheel off of runway centerline lights.

 

[VNugget]

On wide runways I land off centerline so I can see it out the side, and be able to react faster if I start drifting.

 

[ePilot22]

Our policy manual states to keep the nose wheel off of runway centerline lights.

Other than practical purposes.....

I understand that some airport's runways have centerline light which are not inlaid, and that it would be PRACTICAL not to hit them. However, I am under the impression Almerick07 was not giving BFRs (Flight Reviews) in jets, be-1900s or the space shuttle. I would imagine that the aircraft used in flight reviews for fellow CFIs would not be a commercial airliner, nor cargo transporters. I don't think his flight school has a company policy that states not to land on the centerline. Common Sense!!! I have seen the very same thing. You fly with a fellow pilot, in a single maybe multi (light, small, whatever) piston and the pilot lands and rolls out like he/she is driving on the highway. That is sloppy flying! I guess it's a matter of pride! Some have it, some don't! Yes there are going to be certain situations in which the nose wheel may not trace the centerline, but if it's because you're to lazy to try, well then that is the point of this thread.

 

[FN FAL]

Yes there are going to be certain situations in which the nose wheel may not trace the centerline, but if it's because you're to lazy to try, well then that is the point of this thread.

What about if you are crabbing down the runway? Should you reduce power to let the plane drift downwind so that the nosewheel "traces" down the centerline or should you continue to use power to keep the center of the aircraft's mass on the centerline?

Assume for our "hypothetical" situtation that the 135 Merlin guy that landed ahead of you called the runway braking action "poor" in his pirep, him thinking he had done you a "favor". Assume there is a 200 foot ceiling with 5 miles vis and the crosswind is 90 degrees at 16 knots. Also assume that the plane is a Caravan, so there is no differential thrust. Assume that by the time you had started your descent and made the approach, that there was no chance of ever getting back on top at 8,000 feet again, because icing would prohibit your getting back up there.

 

[Almerick07]

This was a nice calm sunny day, all these hypotheticals are driving me about as nuts as people not flying the airplane to the runway.

 

[arbo]

Centerline, there's no excuse for someone wanting to be called a professional. Lights are usually positioned to the side of the centerline markings, usually the opposite side from the terminal, so if you're on the paint you shouldn't hit them. If you fly two pilot aircraft, or want to, each day you could share the cockpit with a different crewmember, it makes the other pilot much more comfortable if you do things correctly. From established on final the aircraft's center of gravity should be on centerline. I say that because in larger aircraft cockpits should be upwind of centerline if there's a strong crosswind allowing the airplane when ruddered for alignment in the flair to be on centerline. I fly with many new FO's who seem to be content with letting the airplane do it's thing and that can be unnerving. Airmanship Always!

 

[FN FAL]

This was a nice calm sunny day, all these hypotheticals are driving me about as nuts as people not flying the airplane to the runway.

It's all fun and games untill you are in a 30-45 degree crab on a runway, utilizing power and rudder to hold the centerline while looking out the side window, hoping that a patch of exposed tarmac isn't going to add some co-efficent of friction excitement into your morning.

 

[ePilot22]

Assume FN FAL could read and understand the posts and would stop writing hypothetical situations that won't exist on a typical flight review, maybe he could get an airplane, in actual, with a 200' celiling, 100kt-90degree x-wind, no elevator or aileron control, flat tires, with centerline lights raised 1' agl, on a runway 1 mile wide, right on the numbers, but not centerline because conditions were slightly worse than normal during his flight review. Or maybe you would make a good decision and not take-off or GO-AROUND and land somehwere the condidtions would allow for a proper landing. Nope, probably too much to assume, huh?

 

[FN FAL]

Assume FN FAL could read and understand the posts and would stop writing hypothetical situations that won't exist on a typical flight review, maybe he could get an airplane, in actual, with a 200' celiling, 100kt-90degree x-wind, no elevator or aileron control, flat tires, with centerline lights raised 1' agl, on a runway 1 mile wide, right on the numbers, but not centerline because conditions were slightly worse than normal during his flight review. Or maybe you would make a good decision and not take-off or GO-AROUND and land somehwere the condidtions would allow for a proper landing. Nope, probably too much to assume, huh?

there's tons of stuff you don't learn from the PTS.

When I'm doing a BFR and I ask a guy/gal if they can make that field over there and they nod "uh-huh" and I give them the warning that carb heat on and a nice and easy power reduction to idle will be their warning that they are losing the engine, I'll be glad that they make the field they said they could. A nose wheel on the the centerline and landing on the numbers or the touchdown zone markers is the sat BFR (IAW the rest of the FARs)...with smiley faces and gold stars on their log book entry.

One last thing on "hypotheticals"...

1. "hypotheticals" means not hypotheticals.

2. Calling the runway braking action "poor" instead of "nil" is not really helping out the guy behind you.

3. Don't use reverse on single engine turboprops to slow down, if you find yourself crabbing on the runway to hold the centerline.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

My thoughts exactly.



Because the examples you cite are significant deviations with important consequences. Landing 15 feet off center will not cause a near miss with VFR traffic, loss of separation, CFIT or fuel exhaustion.

EDIT:
In my experience as an instructor(admittedly years ago), students who are lax with one aspect of airmanship, are lax with several others as well.


I think you're being overly alarmist. Again, you think landing 10' off center line on a 100' runway is unsafe, why would ever consider landing on a 50' runway?


EDIT:
Depends on the airplane, bad habits follow you from airplane to airplane. 10 feet off center on my current bird on a 100 foot wide runway is getting pretty close to the dirt, a Light airplane it is no factor. A bad habit will follow you to places and aircraft that are intolerant of the bad habit. (I.E. short and narrow runway or something bigger than a 182)

There are many operational differences between a 747 (or even a 737) and most light aircraft. The mark of a good pilot is noting all of those differences and determing what habits need to change. For example, I fly a 182 out of a 7000' field. I don't ever calculate takeoff or landing data. It's probably reckless that from day to day, I don't know whether my plane will need a 740' or 1100' ground roll. But it doesn't matter. I never verify gear down either. Were I flying a 747, I would change those habits.

EDIT:

If you refined the habit now, when it is easiest to do, there is no need to have to change the habit later. Trying to change later is how many many of those retractables end up on the belly.


Why are you resorting to personal attacks?

Was not my intention and your quote left out the beginning of the statement. However, a personal attack was not intended, so if you took it that way I am sorry. I simply stated that if a pilot does not care enough to try to do it right, that they had no business as a commercial pilot.