Is SWA trying to purchase ATAs operating certificate without the ATA pilots?

Beetle007

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"FAA said Oct. 31 that it would allocate ATA Airlines’ 14 New York LaGuardia slots to any air carrier that acquires the airline’s business as a whole , which might boost ATA’s efforts to find a buyer"

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/ATA110308.xml&headline=Certain%20ATA%20Bidders%20Could%20Keep%20LGA%20Slots&channel=comm

Unfortunately, the same thing will probably happen to the ATA pilots (ALPA) that happened to the Independence pilots (ALPA). Remember that when NWA wanted to start Compass they purchased the Independence operating certificate, headquarters, and continued to operate an Independence CRJ with Independence management pilots to keep the certificate alive. They even kept the Independence FAA required management positions. Why did ALPA not fight to bring the pilots with the airline (from Independence to Compass)?

I think this is a wake up call to all pilot groups that they need to revise their union contracts to reflect better successorship language. All union contracts should make it clear that purchasing the operating certificate is automatically considered a purchase of the airline for purposes of acquiring the pilot group. Obviously this should be just one of many situations that trigger acquisition of a pilot group.

We are in a world where most airplanes, gates, and other assets are leased. So the fact that SWA does not want the ATA airplanes is irrelevant. If SWA wants the ATA operating certificate, they should be required to take the ATA pilots!
 

Whine Lover

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The geniuses that comprised our MEC structure, one of which was appointed ALPA Custodian in bankruptcy, were not intelligent enough to see this coming. ( Even though most of the ATA Pilot Group did. )

We had full rights to any succesorship. SWA and other financial entities were waiting in the wings while they smooth talked these fools into signing away everything.

The Custodian signed away ALL contractual rights ( The entire ALPA Contract was thrown out the window) and signed an agreement to secure pennies on the dollar against unpaid Vacation, Warn Act Federal Monies , etc., etc.

We had some real intellect at ATA.


YKMKR
 
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Beetle007

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The Custodian signed away ALL contractual rights ( The entire ALPA Contract was thrown out the window) and signed an agreement to secure pennies on the dollar against unpaid Vacation, Warn Act Federal Monies , etc., etc.
I am speechless. ALPA national should have stopped that BS.

I don't think one member should ever be allowed to throw out the pilot contract. I would try to find a lawyer that could argue the custodian wasn't legally allowed to throw out the contract. Just like in divorces where pre-nups are thrown out because they give away rights that can't be given away.

Where is this genius ALPA bankruptcy custodian working now?
 

Beetle007

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Is this the ALPA agreement that reportedly "gave away" your successorship language? Funny how it was titled "ALPA secures cash, jobs for former ATA crewmembers". Seems like a misnomer to me.

"We believe this agreement is the best choice for many ATA families who are still struggling to pay bills and rebuild lives shattered by overwhelming corporate greed,” said former ATA First Officer Don Wurster, who serves as ALPA’s custodian for the ATA cockpit crewmember group."

http://www.skycontrol.net/organisations/alpa-secures-cash-jobs-for-former-ata-crewmembers/
 

ATA For Now!

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He was a two faced, sneaky brown nosing little bastard when he was on the MEC and he finished with this. He always seemed to side with the person who "had the power" at the time and then stab them in the back when that power changed hands. Now, the ultimate screw job to the ATA pilots. Nice job Don! Karma dude! Funny thing, he doesn't have 1000 Turbine PIC so he's not even eligible to work for Southwest.

Enjoy your holidays.
 

ACL65PILOT

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I am really surprised that the ticket is still active. Has ATA been running a flight every few days to keep it active?
 

Chest Rockwell

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I am not sure that even one flight in 90 days is required. An operating certificate is usually worth $1-2 million to someone wishing to start an airline.
 

Beetle007

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It sounds like the FAA wants someone to purchase ATA as a whole to get the LGA slots. I would assume this means assets and liabilities. I guess it is a lot more than the operating certificate.
 

swa737-700

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Is this the ALPA agreement that reportedly "gave away" your successorship language? Funny how it was titled "ALPA secures cash, jobs for former ATA crewmembers". Seems like a misnomer to me.

"We believe this agreement is the best choice for many ATA families who are still struggling to pay bills and rebuild lives shattered by overwhelming corporate greed,” said former ATA First Officer Don Wurster, who serves as ALPA’s custodian for the ATA cockpit crewmember group."

http://www.skycontrol.net/organisations/alpa-secures-cash-jobs-for-former-ata-crewmembers/
Sadly, yes. ALPO sucks, it is that simple. Look what ALPO did for (to) the TWA pilots when aa/apa came knocking at the door.

Sorry that the screw job continues.
 

CF34-3B1

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I think most SWA guys agree the ATA guys got - and continue to get - a raw deal.

I wish we could do more to help.
 

scoreboardII

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I was wondering how long this would take, I mean, how long till some of the out of work/fired ATA guys sue SWA and SWAPA... Seems like you might have a cause with the new legislation. Of course, SWA will say they don't need bodies, and in fact has plenty, to the point of overmanning, and, hey wait a minute, it was the plan all along!

No really, this sucks guys, sorry.
 

GuppyWN

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Well if the plan was to give our jobs and growth away and piss off the pilot group - it's working like a charm.

Gup
 

MCDU

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Do not forget Midwest Express. Another ALPA carrier getting royally screwed.

M
 

Ky.BrownBourbn

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I know the gates in Charlotte were sold to Air Tran, What happened the the DCA (Washington National) Slots and the gates elsewhere? Theres got to be more assets than the Slots in LGA. And if another Airline Bought the "Assets" what would prevent them from taking the "Meat" (Slots and Gates) and selling the "Bones" (Certificate). You wouldn't think there was any idiot right now who would want a certificate to start an Airline BUT their probably is.

Had many friends at ATA who lost jobs, Many still out of work or out of flying, they got a raw deal.

KBB
 

Whataburger

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What happened the the DCA (Washington National) Slots and the gates elsewhere?
KBB
I read in one article that SWA actually paid a bit more for the DCA slots to be dropped out of the "package." We apparently wanted nothing to do with them, and it cost us some money to let the DC slots go alone.
 

Full of LUV

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They should start up a military charter business....

I know the gates in Charlotte were sold to Air Tran, What happened the the DCA (Washington National) Slots and the gates elsewhere? Theres got to be more assets than the Slots in LGA. And if another Airline Bought the "Assets" what would prevent them from taking the "Meat" (Slots and Gates) and selling the "Bones" (Certificate). You wouldn't think there was any idiot right now who would want a certificate to start an Airline BUT their probably is.

Had many friends at ATA who lost jobs, Many still out of work or out of flying, they got a raw deal.

KBB
It seems to me that ATA operated quite a while doing military charters, it was only when they decided to get into 121 ops that their fortunes turned radically different. Maybe they should start up a military charter outfit with their certificate.....
 

Jetjockey

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It seems to me that ATA operated quite a while doing military charters, it was only when they decided to get into 121 ops that their fortunes turned radically different. Maybe they should start up a military charter outfit with their certificate.....

Not quite accurate. They were bigger than SWA at Midway for sometime. Terrible decisions over the last 5 years is what did them in.
 
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