Is Skywest ALPA drive dead?

[MONKEY]

Does SkyWest need protection from the company or ALPA

If you have them by the short hairs, their hearts and minds will follow. Instead, ALPA has been trying to sell something the SkyWest pilots don't yet need.

I think that is exactly what Skynation is talking about. Yah, yah I got an idea, we can't convince them that the company is going to screw them, so let's threaten them, yah, yah that will do it.

 

[PCL_128]

Dead? Far from it. The drive is kicking into high-gear, in fact.

 

[007]

The company will screw them, it's just a matter of time. But until then there will be no union at Skywest, I am willing to bet money on it.

When the company finally does give them the shaft, there will be a lot of the "How could this happen talk" and some will blame their own peers. Namely then it will be ALPA's fault for not organizing them earlier. Some people will never get it.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Well Said

The skywest guys will never buck up and pay their dues.

Please do those of us at Skywest that have brains a favor, and quit assuming Newwoman and Skypestnation speak for all of us!!!!!!

 

[rtmcfi]

I have, and will continue to do so. I used to work at an ALPA carrier (no, it wasn't Mesa).

And which committees did you volunteer on?

 

[jayme]

I'd be willing to bet that HelloNewman and Skynation will be on the organizing committee for the union drive in '09. It happens every time. Some new guys come in thinking SkyWest is utopia and after awhile their eyes get opened. Next thing you know they're screaming "we need a union!". Only problem is that some other new guys have come in and taken their place and before you know it another union drive is dead. Maybe someday this idiotic cycle will cease, but I'm not holding my breath.

The problem is that management does this stuff so insidiously that there really isn't a "wakeup call". It happens slowly, and you have to pay attention to notice it.

Bucket system, taking away newhire pay arbitrarily (I got fkd on this one) after telling interviewees that they WILL be paid in training, new leg cancellation pay policy, required jumpseat to training, PBS (costs us money with NOTHING in return), forced flying... that's all I can think of right now.

Our pay has also slowly slid from near the top of the industry to at or below average. Again, it was slow and insidious. We have a great 50 seat rate, especially when you add in the bonus, but as we slowly added 70 and now 90 seat airplanes, we are now being paid below standard.

 

[FL990]

The company will screw them, it's just a matter of time. But until then there will be no union at Skywest, I am willing to bet money on it.

.

THEY ALREADY DID!! The 70 seat pay that was supposed to take affect never went into effect. Now they have some piddlely override that, again, was just enough to put out the fire. (and the funny thing is, they are greatful for it).

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think that is exactly what Skynation is talking about. Yah, yah I got an idea, we can't convince them that the company is going to screw them, so let's threaten them, yah, yah that will do it.

Don't confuse my opinion with what ALPA does. Especially when in my opinion ALPA is not doing what they should be doing.

My arguement is that if ALPA was being effective, there would not be so much confusion at SkyWest about whether they needed to be in ALPA.

As it turns out, ALPA is effective on a small scale with local safety, scheduling and pilot representational matters - but the SkyWest pilots don't see this because they don't work for an ALPA carrier and their management plays nice for the most part.

The SkyWest pilots do see the larger picture and they see that they are benefitting from the crisis of leadership at ALPA National.

When ALPA publicly valued their sale of small jet flying from the Delta property at $150 million dollars and works with management to transfer this flying out to the lowest bidder - what are industry observers supposed to think?

No wonder SkyWest pilots don't see the need....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think that is exactly what Skynation is talking about. Yah, yah I got an idea, we can't convince them that the company is going to screw them, so let's threaten them, yah, yah that will do it.

Yet, no one wants to talk about the future. Sure all is well NOW at Skywest. But if you look at the historical trend, sooner or later pilots need representation....

Anyone care to address this?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Fins-

If you want to envoke positive change you have to use positive methods.!!!

 

[DrewBlows]

Fins-

If you want to envoke positive change you have to use positive methods.!!!

Agreed. Without ALPA at Comair I would have taken a $10/ hour pay cut (off second year pay!) a year ago. Of course, without ALPA I wouldn't have ever been in a position to take a $10/hour pay cut, because I would never be making what I'm making now. The bottom line is that ALPA has saved me (a penny saved is a penny earned) over $10,000 by fighting pay and work rules changes by management. I'm still going to take a pay cut, but it won't be nearly as much as it would have been, and I have $10,000+ in my pocket in the mean time; well worth my 1.95%. I'm happy to volunteer and happy that ALPA is here.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Rez:

I hear you. I just think if ALPA would take some of the tools it has out and used them every once a while the SkyWest guys would understand what the union can do.

Unfortunately at ASA and Comair, the Delta boys hid the ALPA tool box (no, worse, they sold it to management) and now no one remembers what those tools were even supposed to be used for. Meanwhile the white man has fractionalized us off into little reservations and we no longer control our hunting grounds.

Carrying the analogy further - We are all sympathetic to the Indians, but none of us wants to be them.

 

[scarlet]

Prater Plain and Simple-They don't want ALPA now then they don't WANT ALPA later in their careers.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:

I hear you. I just think if ALPA would take some of the tools it has out and used them every once a while the SkyWest guys would understand what the union can do.

Unfortunately at ASA and Comair, the Delta boys hid the ALPA tool box (no, worse, they sold it to management) and now no one remembers what those tools were even supposed to be used for. Meanwhile the white man has fractionalized us off into little reservations and we no longer control our hunting grounds.

Carrying the analogy further - We are all sympathetic to the Indians, but none of us wants to be them.

Agreed! When I ask why we do things at ALPA the way we do I am somehtimes amazed at the asnwers. We are effective, but we can be so much more.

Instead of placing blame (in your case ALPA National, Delta Brand MEC's) lets work to put in place the oraganization, systems and programs so we are much better at serving ourselves.

Finally, regardless of the the organizational structure, programs and systems the only way we are going to make this work is thru relationship buliding. The CEO's in the biz world love to fix problems by implementing programs. That is only a facade if the people running the programs don't feel trust, respect, loyalty and faith in the leaders.

 

[FlyBunny]

Seems like the drive started a long time ago. How many have signed up?

Why would ANYONE want a union at a company that's being run professionally without the union? What has ALPA (or any other union) done for pilots that SkyWay management hasn't done.

Time for the unions was back in the 20's and 30's...with todays' labor laws...we DO NOT need unions. UNIONS HAVE NOT SERVED THIS COUNTRY WELL!

Say NO to unions.
Look at our Auto industry...going down the 'drain' becuase of unions.

Bunny

 

[Cardinal]

Please keep instructing, FlyBunny. We need good pilots like yourself to keep those bailing wire/duct tape training birds in the air at all costs. God forbid a pilot would have the right to say "No" to a broke airplane or marginal Wx.

The ability of workers in safety-sensitive industries such as transportation to keep the brake set has saved thousands and thousands of untold lives. A good descision, though contrary to management's wishes, doesn't make headlines.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Edited and sent in a PM....

But unions have done a lot in our Nation. They simply have last the PR battle as our Country has become a service oriented economy where most employees are lower level managers who can not speak freely without fear of retribution. All they can do is read Far Side cartoons and watch re runs of Office Space.

Unions are needed in the piloting profession because none of us are worth what we get paid on the basis of "supply and demand." When the Wright Bros. flew the first airplane Wilbur and Orville had to flip a coin to see who got to fly. Nothing has changed. There are still more pilots than there are flying jobs.

Unions are needed in the piloting profession because we spend more than twice the amount of time as the average US worker on the job. We are away from home an average of 300 hours per month while the company controls when we sleep, when we eat and when we see our families.

Unions are needed in the piloting profession because it is our certificates which allow the airplane to operate. We are responsible for the operation, even parts of the operation we do not control. The final authority and the complete responsibility for this operation is ours. When an incident occurs, the FAA and your Employer will not accept responsibility. No, the pilot in command will be offered as a sacrifice to ensure the public that after the pilot has been sanctioned, or fired, that the problem is fixed.

ALPA has tools to effectively deal with these problems and for 1.95%, ALPA has years of experienced, dedicated, people who will be on your side.

ALPA has its problems and I'm the canary in the coal mine on some of these issues. But going forward ALPA is the best hope for our profession. The only way we are going to restore the piloting profession is by working together - ALPA is the only organization that can bring that together.

 

[rickair7777]

If ALPA does not get on the SkyWest property, they only have ALPA to blame. Even though ALPA would be good for the SkyWest pilots in particular and the industry in general, ALPA has failed in their representational duty to regional pilots as they repeatedly sold us down the river by promoting mainline interests above other members who they owed a fair duty of representation to.

Further, ALPA should aggressively use scope and the power of their contractual negotiating to strip airlines like SkyWest of their flying. ALPA should not play nice. ALPA should play to be effective.

If ALPA would use their seat at the table to draw a line that included ALPA members, the SkyWest pilots would sign up so they too could sit at the table.

If you have them by the short hairs, their hearts and minds will follow. Instead, ALPA has been trying to sell something the SkyWest pilots don't yet need.

I agree, but doubt it will ever happen.

ALPA does some good things at certain levels, and wouldn't mind paying my 2% instead of riding the coat-tails. HOWEVER...my previous, painful experience with alpa at the regional level leads me to believe that alpa at SKW will cost me a GREAT DEAL MORE than 2%.

Alpa has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are unwilling or unable to effectively represent most regionals. I have visions of SKW turning into mesa-like environment whenever I think of alpa on property...that alone seals the deal in my mind.

In order to attract my interest alpa needs to do a few things...

1) Stop Lying. This is the kind of behavior I would expect from a longshoreman's local (or management) , not from a pilot's association. I overheard a few new-hires (cfi) who had attended an alpa get-together talking about alpa loss-of-license insurance...they had come away with the impression that if you lost your medical or license for any reason, you would get 66% of your pay until age 60! WTF? I wonder where they got that idea...

2) Establish and publicly announce a plan or set of standards for regional contracts, and a timeline/roadmap as to how they are going to get there. I don't need them to "fix" SKW the way they "fixed" my last alpa carrier, but I might be interested in a national unity program for regionals.

 

[XJohXJ]

I am a union advocate and belonged to a union in my previous career. In my last union, the senior members stood up for the junior members. ALWAYS. We could trust them, and our unity earned us pay and benefits that were unimaginably great. I still can not believe how fantastic our health benefits were, and they did not cost us anything our of pocket (and yes, our pay was very good, too.)

However, ALPA has a long, and sordid history of the seniors selling out the juniors for a song and a cheap cigar. Very few pilots wish to be lifers at the regionals. We want jobs at the majors. Yet the mainline MECs repeatedly sell out their regional "brothers and sisters". There needs to be a drive to get regional pilots mainline numbers. Otherwise, those of us working at ALPA regionals will see our options lost and our futures sold as non-union pilots from quick-upgrade lowball airlines take up all the good mainline jobs while ALPA pilots spend their careers as regional FO's. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate my FO time, but I've got to know I've got some kind of future to look forward to.

Until Mainline ALPA members start considering the fates of their regional bretheren, ALPA will not have much of a platform to work from to organize other regional airlines.

By the way, how did mainline MEC's ever allow their outsourced work to go to non-union labor in the first place? It seems the battle was completely lost when that happened. Maybe the senior guys got to earn an extra $5/hr out of the deal....

 

[XJohXJ]

Currently, ALPA is more of a "division", not a "union". We need unity, not short trips under the wheels of the bus.