Is flying an airliner easy?

[EAP]

I think UAL78 offered some pretty good perspective to the original question. As far as the social engineering that went on in the "late 80's and 90's" and still does to a degree, let's be honest here... at a hell of a lot more airlines than just Marvin (UAL for the layman) played this little game. Some of them were just as good at the game too, they just didn't get all the credit Marvin did. I could go on and on about this person or that person who allegedly didn't "deserve" getting onto brand X airline. It sure didn't mean that flying an airliner was any easier for them, or for their flight crew or passengers/victims. If you REALLY want to examine some out of line hiring, look no further than some part 91 corporate aviation operations. Corporate jets are no "easier" to fly than most airliners

 

[banned username 1]

Guppy Puppy,

While I admit that for a number of females, that was the case, they are the exception now rather than the norm. And frankly, those pilots stand out. The rest of the female pilots are outstanding. I doubt that UAL, or anybody else would have changed their hiring bias if not under the shadow of an EEOC hammer. It's pretty much history now, and it doesn't address this thread. You've made your point and I'll have to agree to some extent. Will it ever happen again? Doubtful.

Back to this guy's question. I hope we've answered it for you because I don't know what else we can tell you. Remember that few of us have the fortune to pick a particular "route" to "go" in aviation. That's the first lesson you need to learn. Let us know what happens in ten years of so.

 

[smellthejeta]

Back to the original guy's question... It took me A LONG TIME to figure out what I wanted in a career. When I first started training, I thought airlines were the ONLY way to go. Having worked for the airlines and some MAJOR FBO's, I've come to the conclusion that ignoring the corporate world would short change yourself. I've me too many guys who see to have the AIRLINE ONLY blinders on, and keep thinking that they're sheltering themselves from some great careers just because they aren't airlines. After getting furloughed from the airlines three or four times (former roommates of mine) you might come to realize that starting over on 1st year regional pay ($20k/yr) just isn't what you wanted from a career.

 

[AA717driver]

Flying corporate is considerably more challenging than airline flying. At the airlines, you just show up, get in and go where the flight plan tells you.

In corporate, you have a lot of support these days. Flight planning is done by a service (but occasionally, they will screw up and you have to catch them), travel arrangements are made by the in-house flight coordinator (but occasionally they will screw up and you have to catch them) and the pax usually travel with an assistant.

BUT! If something goes wrong (transpo or catering doesn't show, the plane breaks or the TV doesn't work) the guy with a bunch of "0's" after the numbers in his bank balance will be staring YOU down wondering why YOU got things screwed up.

Tomorrow I may fly from IND to LIT. The next day, I might fly from LIT to MDLR (La Romanna, D.R.) OR to India. You just don't know.

Yes, corporate is a lot more "challenging" than airline flying... But that's a double-edged sword. Good luck.TC

 

[skipro101]

Thank you for your replies.

Yea, I was not looking for an "answer" so much as some perspectives I guess. I understand that I will have to be flexible and take advantage of any good opportunity, whether it is my dream track or not, if I want to get ahead quickly. still though, its good to be educated with perspectives and at least have a game plan--albeit one that is going to change.

Yea, maybe I should have figured it all out by now, but there is a lot of think about when you talk about career… a big part of ones life is spent working...making this simple posts might change my life ;] hehe, ok I’m being dramatic.

AA171diver said, " At the airlines, you just show up, get in and go where the flight plan tells you."

That is the perception I have of airline flying....and I don’t think that would be what I want out of a career. There is a perspective on www.jetcareers.com about a British kid who was accepted to the BA flight academy...he would have had everything paid for and a seat in a big heavy jet...but after riding jump seat a few times he chose a different career.... amazing to me...but it opened my eyes that maybe being an airline pilot isn’t the track for me....

Regardless, I will only know after I’ve lived my life...

Still, I’m thinking corporate or fedex/ups/dhl is more to my personality than is the big airlines.

Thanks


Edited for grammar.

 

[vetrider]

Thank you for your replies.

Yea, I was not looking for an "answer" so much as some persepctives I guess. I understand that I will have to be flexbile and take advantage of any good opportunity, weather it is my dream track or not, if I want to get ahead quickly. still though, its good to be educated with perspectives and at least have a game plan--albeit one that is going to change.

Yea, maybe I should have figued it all out by now, but there is a lot of think about when you talk about career..a big part of ones life is spent working...making this simple posts might change my life ;] hehe, ok im being dramatic.

AA171diver said " At the airlines, you just show up, get in and go where the flight plan tells you."

That is the perception I have of airline flying....and I dont think that would be what I want out of a career. There is a perspective on www.jetcareers.com about a british kid who was accepted to the BA flight academy...he would have had everything paid for and a seat in a big heavy jet...but after riding jumpseat a few times he chose a different career....amazing to me...but it opened my eyes that maybe being an airline pilot isnt the track for me....

regardless, I will only know after ive lived my life...

Still, im thinking corporate or fedex/ups/dhl is more to my personality than is the big airlines.

Thanks

Well if showing up, getting in, and going where the flight plan tells you is not necessarily for you, then neither will fedex/ups/dhl be for you, because that is exactly what they do as well. The only real difference is what is in the back of the plane.

Airline flying may be structured, but don't confuse that with boring. To borrow from an idea UAL 78 put forth in a previous post, just as Stevie Ray Vaughan, BB King, Eric Clapton and others can put their own touch on the same song and yet retain their own identifiable "voices", so to can the airline pilot put his own stamp on that routine Denver to LA trip. On the subject of UAL 78, I personally think his commentary in this thread is dead on, it would be worth it to reread all his posts here.

Personally, I love airline flying. I've never flown military or much corporate or charter, but I'm sure they have their own rewards as well. I don't care what kind of flying it is, you can't really go wrong if you ask me.

 

[Bankangle]

The more important question to be asked: Was it easy to get to where you were flying an airliner and got the experience to where you thought it was easy? That would be a NO.

That summs it up! Good job!

 

[jws717]

The hand flying of the CRJ is quite easy, just like a 172, however it is not forgiving. If you are a few knots to fast it will float 1000s of feet down the runway. In other words if you mess up a little in a 172 at 500ft AGL you are still gona be able to get it into a positon to land, in the CRJ its getting ugly.
Also when i got my first job on a jet keeping up with the speed on approches and go arounds was a chalenge. You also have the whole CRM aspect to deal with. Bottom line after flying the thing for a few hours you will feel at home. As far as the airlines being boring, it depends on what you like. flying into new york in a snow storm is a real challenge. or flying the visual into washingtons reagan at night is another awsome ride.

 

[skipro101]

Thanks for the post jws.

 

[AA717driver]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that airline flying wasn't fun. It was a whole lot more fun than corporate. It's just not as challenging.

I enjoy the challenge but I'd go back to driving a 717 around the Midwest tomorrow if I could. (If I could go back as a captain, be 50% on the captain list, have a totally painless commute and have no worries about the stability of my company.)

Good luck.TC

 

[Strikefinder]

Though I've only flown for the regionals in the airline world, and flown some, although limited, corporate flying, I don't entirely agree that airline flying is "easier", though I will admit that the challenges are different in this environment than than in the corporate environment.

Though at the regional I work for we do have the vast majority of the flight planning done for us, it's frequently incorrect, or at the least, inefficient. I'd say that 1 of every 5 flights that needs an alternate doesn't come with one, often we get out of date weather with the package, minimum fuel doesn't take into consideration appropriate MELs (fuel pump inoperative, for instance) or reasonable thought (200 lbs to taxi in LGA in with EDCT times running 1:30?). In corporate flying, I would have to do most of the flight planning on my own (where I worked, anyhow), but I generally wasn't doing 20 minute turns with an aircraft swap. And I could look at the WSI machine myself instead of calling a dispatcher who can't read a TAF and asking them to interpret the radar (who told a friend of mine recently that there was no forecasted or reported icing in Boston while they were in the middle of a snowstorm).

Just like corporate, your passengers get just as angry about things that are out of your control. I heard a guy in the front of our aircraft yelling at our flight attendant so loudly while we waited over an hour for a place to park on a sunny day that I could hear him through the bulletproof door and my headset, and I was on the border of having him forcably removed from the aircraft. Passengers leave dirty diapers on the planes, urinate all over the floor in the bathroom, have their kids grind granola bars into the floor. I had a passenger in PIT threaten to beat me up in the terminal when we cancelled his flight because our medical kit was expired. I had no control over any of this, but I got blamed for it. In the time I spent flying corporate, I never dealt with anybody equally as unreasonable (nor did I generally deal with people who left dirty diapers on the plane or did I have to wait an hour for a place to park).

Depending on where you fly corporate, there may be more thorough maintenance done and less "ops checked okay" on serious items. The aircraft simply have more downtime and the cost pressures, while still high, might not be as cutthroat as in this business. You also have a much higher standard with ramp personnel, aircraft fuelers, and so forth. In corporate flying I found that when you requested a lavatory service, you got it. When you requested to get fueled, you got it. In PHL, these things are often seen as "discretionary".

Finally, any sort of professional jet pilot position involves a lot more than the motor skills to fly the plane. What do you do when the book doesn't address a situation? When you feel something "weird" in the controls but maintenance tells you it's fine (control cables rubbing against the grommits in the fuselage due to binding against aileron bellcranks, as we found out seven hours later)? When the book says "consider landing at the nearest suitable airport" and dispatch says "we think it's okay"? When you take a delay and get a call from the chief pilot for getting more fuel (we're the only of seven aircraft to reach our destination after holding, and still *I* get the phone call!). Flying the plane is easy. The decisions, personal skills, CRM, and so forth is the hard part. I love the challenge, but "easy" isn't what I'd describe it as.

 

[ihateyourego]

All these answers are way too technical. I flew the twotter for a while and the transition will be no problem. My only advice is not to leave the twotter. I miss that plane every day. Seems like you might be a diver driver, so I know why you want to leave. But enjoy your time in the dash-6, I cant wait to get back in that pig for a few more hours.

Dont let anyone fool you man. If you can fly that -6 single pilot, you can learn and fly an airliner.

 

[skipro101]

thanks ihateyourego and strikefinder, replies much appreciated.

 

[A Squared]

Taking off at 1 am in the morning flying a ...........

As opposed to 1 A.M. in evening?????

 

[405]

Taking off at 1 am in the morning flying a ...........

As opposed to 1 A.M. in evening?????

Does D's statement really bother you that much?

 

[A Squared]

Does D's statement really bother you that much?

No, not at all. Merely commenting on the tautology. Don't reach for somthing which doesn't exist.

 

[405]

No, not at all. Merely commenting on the tautology. Don't reach for somthing which doesn't exist.

Don't read too much into my question, A. The first sentence would have been a satisfactory response. I appreciate the reason for your reply in the second set of words. The last sentence really wasn't needed.

 

[A Squared]

(original, unedited post)Don't read too much into my question, A. The first sentence would have been a satisfactory response. I appreciate the reason for your reply in the second set of words. The last sentence really wasn't needed. It seemed almost threatening in a way.

Threatening? You gotta be freaking kidding me. You call that threatening? Like I said before, don't reach for somthing which doesn't exist.

 

[405]

Threatening? You gotta be freaking kidding me. You call that threatening? Like I said before, don't reach for somthing which doesn't exist.

On the second edit, I changed the word "threatening" to "challenging" or something similar to that. On the third edit, I deleted the last sentence.
So there's my explanation.

Like I said before, it was a simple question. Nothing more, nothing less.

Get that "e" in there.

 

[405]

I'm still not reaching for SOMTHING that doesn't exist whatever the hell that means.