Is First Officer IOE actually SIC time?

J32driver

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Dumb question of the day award goes to me...

You are being trained as a First Officer in an airplane that requires 2 crewmembers. Should you log "SIC" and "dual received", or just "Dual Received"?

My guess... both SIC and DUAL... because the IOE Checkairman is not single pilot typed. Anyone know if my thinking is correct.
 

El Bucho

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It's SIC. To be dual, the Check Airman would have to sign off your logbook, which nobody does. You aren't even told to bring your logbook with you.
 
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SIC. You are current and qualified by virtue of your valid 121.441 checkride. This is for the airplane.

The IOE is a requirement of the operation under part 121. You are not receiving instruction, only supervision. You could fly part 91 legs all day long without completing IOE. Some regionals have done this.

Rule of thumb: log based on the airplane, not the activity. Sure you "can" log PIC in the right seat as a typed-rated sole manipulator but if your name isn't on the relaese, you shouldn't. You "can" log SIC time in a BE-200 under 135 if your ops specs require it, but you shouldn't.

IOE by definition is a revenue operation. Your ops specs would prohibit single pilot operations even if the aircraft manufacturer didn't already--making a single-pilot type moot. There is no dual to be received because you are "current and qualified" as you must be as a required crewmember. Your "training" at this point is company specific on company paperwork--not a function of certification or qualification that would need to be indicated in your logbook.
 

rk772

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How about this one. I just got typed and am doing my PIC IOE. The captain giving the IOE is the one listed as the PIC in all the paperwork. Do I just log SIC until my IOE is completed.
 

J32driver

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rk772 said:
How about this one. I just got typed and am doing my PIC IOE. The captain giving the IOE is the one listed as the PIC in all the paperwork. Do I just log SIC until my IOE is completed.

Thats what I did.
 

FedEx1

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Yes you log SIC until IOE is complete. The check airman is the PIC since he is the one signing for the aircraft. Only one person can log PIC.
 

greygoose

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rk772 said:
How about this one. I just got typed and am doing my PIC IOE. The captain giving the IOE is the one listed as the PIC in all the paperwork. Do I just log SIC until my IOE is completed.
Tell him to throw a hood on....
 

MajorAv8r

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You are S.I.C until you complete your line check, which is usually done on the last leg.
 

Spinplate

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What about when I step out of the cockpit and Im on the $hitter....? Does that count towards my flight time? Or does the flight attendant log that?
 

rk772

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Spinplate said:
What about when I step out of the cockpit and Im on the $hitter....? Does that count towards my flight time? Or does the flight attendant log that?

That one's easy. You log PIC (PILOT IN the CAN)
 

Dirty Sanchez

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Who cares...

The only time it will matter is if you get fired during or shortly after IOE. Then you should worry about how to log it. Otherwise it is only going to be a very small part of your SIC time.

Fly what you want. Log what you need.
 

CRJDog

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This applies to PIC time as well. I heard that where I work they preach that you
should not log it. BS!
 

TinGoose1

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When you go for an interview, they are going to want your PIC+SIC+Dual received=Total time. You can't be anything two of those at the same time.
 

xjcaptain

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During IOE you would log SIC as an FO. Keep in mind that your check-airman may not have a current CFI or may never have had a CFI, so they would be unable to provide traditional "dual received". Instruction in air-transportation ops may be provided as an ATP, and certainly as a current check airman. Bottom line...it doesn't matter, just log it as SIC, you're a required crewmember and not a PIC, so that leaves......SIC.
 

KingAirer

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TinGoose1 said:
When you go for an interview, they are going to want your PIC+SIC+Dual received=Total time. You can't be anything two of those at the same time.
Not always true. Outside the airline world anyways. Just for example when someone does instrument training as a PVT pilot, they can log PIC and Dual recvd.
 
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