Is Colgan toast?

[Hypoxik]

perfect reason for pinchanickle and depressjet to merge. They both would benefit from this since sheputtle and sky pest are bigger than both PNCL and XJT. RAH and SKYW have a future plan unlike depressjet.

What fly 73's for an higher 8% overide, but only on those trips?

 

[cale42]

As an aside, the Capt's estate might get sued, if it is shown that he indeed lied and/or withheld his checkride history and secured a job at Colgan, a job which put him PIC of a flight that he killed 50 people on, due to poor airmanship, which could have been reflected on his checkride history, which he covered up. If that is shown, yes, his assets could be pursued.

This is kind of off topic, but this seems a gray area to me. I haven't filled out an application in a while but I don't recall itemizing which GA rides I failed. It was a "Have you ever failed a checkride" if the answer is yes, than you are asked to explain in the interview. I don't recall that ever going in a record anywhere and it obviously doesn't show up on PRIA records. I always felt GA failures were more about your attitude towards them than any vetting process. What are others experiences in this area?

cale

 

[satpak77]

This is kind of off topic, but this seems a gray area to me. I haven't filled out an application in a while but I don't recall itemizing which GA rides I failed. It was a "Have you ever failed a checkride" if the answer is yes, than you are asked to explain in the interview. I don't recall that ever going in a record anywhere and it obviously doesn't show up on PRIA records. I always felt GA failures were more about your attitude towards them than any vetting process. What are others experiences in this area?

cale

Good points. I think if it is demonstrated he was "less than forthcoming" etc etc versus "not required to be listed, so leave it blank" type thing, that is what will jam him up.

 

[30West]

After seeing the ABCNEWS report 5/15/09,I'm really convinced that Colgan is TOAST!!
ABCNEWS just does not like Colgan Airlines or any other regional carrier!!!
www.abcnews.com 5/15/09

Just like Pinnacle, Comair, Northwest, Delta, American, etc. were toast after all of their high profile crashes?
Valujet disappeared but didn't technically go out of business, they were re branded. I'm not sure what you mean by toast. Colgan will be the media whipping boy until the next time people get trapped on the tarmac for 12 hours or someone falls asleep at the yoke or heaven forbid someone else crashes.

 

[jmreii]

Indeed, all good points. However you will have to search long and hard to find an accident where a crewed 121 airplane allowed the plane to literally stop flying in mid-air. Granted, dead is dead, but you see my point (or at least I think you do).



Any lawsuits will be filed in multiple courts, all of who have jurisdiction. CAL, whose HQ is in Houston (TX) will get sued, period, end of story. TX statute for filing the lawsuit is 2 years from the alleged event that resulted in damages. As a matter of fact, most states are 2-3 yrs for personal injury/negligence/etc type lawsuits.

Other people who will get sued, no questions asked, are below ("getting sued" and "being held liable", or "court ordered to pay out" are two different things. I can go down to the court and file a lawsuit against my own dog if I wanted) :

- Colgan
- FAA
- Flightsafety/Sim Provider
- Gulfstream Academy
- The last check airman who flew with each pilots (sad but true...)
- State of New York
- Bombardier (of course)
- Whoever 3rd party software/avionics company that links the stick shaker into the stall system
- Etc

Sadly, "ability to collect" is the mantra in when a personal injury attorney files a suit. It is very unlikely the dead pilot's estates will be pursued. As an aside, the Capt's estate might get sued, if it is shown that he indeed lied and/or withheld his checkride history and secured a job at Colgan, a job which put him PIC of a flight that he killed 50 people on, due to poor airmanship, which could have been reflected on his checkride history, which he covered up. If that is shown, yes, his assets could be pursued.

But besides something like that, the estates probably won't get touched.

CAL, Colgan, FAA will all get sued, no questions asked. The others will probably get sued but collecting on the others is a little harder. I mean, what did Bombardier have to do with this? (but, they will get sued, very likely.)

Colgan hired the guy, and "failed" to background him. CAL supposedly vets and monitors its feeders. The FAA monitors everybody.

Yes, lawsuits are a-coming.

Eastern 401 crashed despite a cockpit crew with excellent background checks and having never failed a checkride with the exception being their last flight on December 29, 1972.

So what, whats your point?

 

[jmreii]

This is kind of off topic, but this seems a gray area to me. I haven't filled out an application in a while but I don't recall itemizing which GA rides I failed. It was a "Have you ever failed a checkride" if the answer is yes, than you are asked to explain in the interview. I don't recall that ever going in a record anywhere and it obviously doesn't show up on PRIA records. I always felt GA failures were more about your attitude towards them than any vetting process. What are others experiences in this area?

cale

The PRIA only covers 5 years back from the date of your emploment application. Checkrides, writtens, oral failures will be in your airmen records that the FAA keeps forever. I have yet to see an airline care about someone failing their checkride for a private, commercial, instrument, etc. What they do care about is the 135 and 121 checkrides. There is also a unwritten degree of difficulty rule. A pilot that blows his checkride in a hawker jet still looks better than a pilot that passes all his checkrides in a c-172, pa-140, are an easy airplane to operate.

 

[30West]

Indeed, all good points. However you will have to search long and hard to find an accident where a crewed 121 airplane allowed the plane to literally stop flying in mid-air.

I need only look at Northwest at DTW, Air Florida at DCA and Delta in DFW. In all three instances crewed 121 aircraft were indeed allowed to stop flying mid-air.

I need only look at Eastern in Miami and American in Colombia. In both instances crewed 121 aircraft were allowed to stop flying mid-terrain.

I need only look at Eastern in JFK and Delta in DFW. In both instances crewed 121 aircraft were allowed to stop flying mid-thunderstorm.

No one is immune to stupid mistakes, regardless of where one considers themselves or any other pilot on the "bottom feeder" s##tpile.