Is ALPA Really Going To Allow This To Happen At UAL??

[BigMotorToter]

I say its time for the big guns.


SOS. All alpa carriers and support for non-alpa carriers who wish to jump on the bandwagon.

If this is not a reason for SOS then nothing is.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fam62c]

I can't imagine any situation where RJ scope would be relaxed further than it already has.

What about a second bankruptcy?

 

[Lear70]

If they filed BR again, in this economy, there's a very real chance they could end up liquidating. NOT a good scenario, and I doubt they'd try it.

Easier to scare the crap out of the pilots and gamble that they'll give more back to get that Scope back. Just hope the pilot group is smart enough to see through it...

What a crazy career... who'd have thought 20 years ago it would come to this?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Very Valid points not to mention this has already been tried and is successful.. Open Skies airline has bypassed BALPA. They fly 757s across the Atlantic without British Airways pilots.

This is now a shot directly across OUR bow. The implications are far reaching. This is not just about UAL, everyone from AA to SWA better watch this, it will impact all of us.

AA

It was a shot across our bow when BA did it last year..... UAL pilots picketed at IAD in support of the BALPA pilots....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you guys don't stop this at UAL, we will all be on the street in short order. !

If you feel you have something to lose, then why depend on the UAL guys.... ??

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes this is a codeshare. You are correct. I work for a carrier that UAL codeshares with also.

Respectfully, a codeshare is when two airlines share marketing and flights, such as LH and UA.

If you are a vendor that provides lift for UAL, then the chances are you are ALPA or IBT. Even if you are Skywest, will you picket with the UAL guys?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ok you have your history with ALPA and I have mine. I do belive we could be doing just as well in house as is being shown at SW and AA. All that is niether here nor there. If you are right and ALPA is the best way forward then great, I would love to be wrong. In my opinion they , ALPA, are in bed with to many pilot groups that do not have our best intrest in mind. All this has been hashed through before. In the end it is the pilot group themselves that will make it or not. The tie tack is not relevant. For this season I laugh at the excitement the tranny folks on here have for ALPA. If the pilot group stays the same so will the result.

With that said good luck to us both going forward. Strap in it's going to be a wild ride.

SWAPA and the APA have very limited international connections and networks... heck, they have limited national networks

This is an international issue with Aer Lingus. UALPA, BALPA and the Irish pilots are part of IFALPA... In addition, recall the UAL and Aer Lingus have already signed a protocol agreement. As did the DAL pilots and AF pilots.


Respectfully, you are really showing your lack of knowledge on how ALPA is connected internationally with ICAO and IFALPA. The Deputy President to IFALPA is a UAL pilot.....


Suggesting that SWAPA or the APA are just as good for complex international issues is like asking a Texas Good Ol' Boy to give you a eloquent historical tour of Roma.

 

[AAflyer]

It was a shot across our bow when BA did it last year..... UAL pilots picketed at IAD in support of the BALPA pilots....

Yes it was a shot across our bow.. I should have placed that comment in my last post.

So what did the picketing accomplish? I see Open Skies jets at JFK every time I depart for Europe.

APA was also in communication with BALPA, as both groups are part of the Oneworld pilot coalition which correspond regularly.

The fact that ALPA has so many connections on the domestic and International front does not mean much if nothing is accomplished to preserve our career.

AAflyer

However ALPAs (Praters) connections domestically certainly helped speed up age 65.Ya, good for you. :smash:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes it was a shot across our bow.. I should have placed that comment in my last post.

So what did the picketing accomplish? I see Open Skies jets at JFK every time I depart for Europe.

APA was also in communication with BALPA, as both groups are part of the Oneworld pilot coalition which correspond regularly.

The fact that ALPA has so many connections on the domestic and International front does not mean much if nothing is accomplished to preserve our career.

AAflyer

However ALPAs (Praters) connections domestically certainly helped speed up age 65.Ya, good for you. :smash:

How about an attitude change? Instead of being so adversarial, why not call your APA leadership and tell them to work with ALPA, BALPA and Aer Lingus pilots to form a coalition.

The more picketing and demonstrations we do, the more press we will get.....

 

[AAflyer]

How about an attitude change? Instead of being so adversarial, why not call your APA leadership and tell them to work with ALPA, BALPA and Aer Lingus pilots to form a coalition.

The more picketing and demonstrations we do, the more press we will get.....

Hey Rez,

I know this sounds crazy, however I am actually on your side. We are BOTH union pilots. I have been to all major events that APA asked of me. I was initially a domicile SPC coordinator. I now perform my volunteer work for Aeromedical.

I am not kidding when I say we are all in this together, and yes we better communicate with BALPA, and we need to have a better relationship with ALPA, our futures are more tied than you may think.

I was ALPA at two prior airlines, I am not an ALPA basher, I see it's faults on a national level, and why individual groups can sink it on a local level.

APA has its own dysfunctionality, however it is my union, and they speak for me. I would not hesitate to nationally picket with ANY ALPA pilot group. I truly do not see us going back to ALPA, nor do I see SWAPA or IPA doing that as well, however we can form closer relationships.

I admire the effort you put forth, and unfortunately some comments can not be seen for humorous jabs that are intended.

Regards

AAflyer

P.S. Truly Rez, I am not your enemy...

 

[ROSWELL41]

Respectfully, a codeshare is when two airlines share marketing and flights, such as LH and UA.

If you are a vendor that provides lift for UAL, then the chances are you are ALPA or IBT. Even if you are Skywest, will you picket with the UAL guys?

I would be proud to stand next to the UAL guys. Picketing alone won't solve this problem however.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hey Rez,

I know this sounds crazy, however I am actually on your side. We are BOTH union pilots. I have been to all major events that APA asked of me. I was initially a domicile SPC coordinator. I now perform my volunteer work for Aeromedical.

I am not kidding when I say we are all in this together, and yes we better communicate with BALPA, and we need to have a better relationship with ALPA, our futures are more tied than you may think.

I was ALPA at two prior airlines, I am not an ALPA basher, I see it's faults on a national level, and why individual groups can sink it on a local level.

APA has its own dysfunctionality, however it is my union, and they speak for me. I would not hesitate to nationally picket with ANY ALPA pilot group. I truly do not see us going back to ALPA, nor do I see SWAPA or IPA doing that as well, however we can form closer relationships.

I admire the effort you put forth, and unfortunately some comments can not be seen for humorous jabs that are intended.

Regards

AAflyer

P.S. Truly Rez, I am not your enemy...

Not sure what it is with you APA guys..... the reason pilots left ALPA in the 1950s was silly and ego based...

As long as APA stays indy our effectiveness is weakened. Let ALPA join the APA. I don't care what it is called. We need to be under one group....


I don't think you guys are the enemy... but I think we are doing ourselves wrong by not joinoing forces....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I would be proud to stand next to the UAL guys.

Then do it. When I was at a regional, I stood with the mainline guys and I stood with my guys....

Picketing alone won't solve this problem however.

No, but its like voting.... if you don't vote, then the apathy speaks volumes to those working against us...

My concern in your post... is you put the onus on the UAL guys to solve a problem that you fear will effect you.....

Only until all of us accept the problems of others will we be unifed....

We choose to be indifferent to fellow pilots problems, however suddenly, when the problems become real for the indifferent, they want everyone to come to their aid... how does that work?

 

[AAflyer]

.. but I think we are doing ourselves wrong by not joinoing forces....

I think you are correct.

AAflyer

P.S. APA was founded in 1963.

 

[ROSWELL41]

Then do it. When I was at a regional, I stood with the mainline guys and I stood with my guys....





No, but its like voting.... if you don't vote, then the apathy speaks volumes to those working against us...

My concern in your post... is you put the onus on the UAL guys to solve a problem that you fear will effect you.....

Only until all of us accept the problems of others will we be unifed....

We choose to be indifferent to fellow pilots problems, however suddenly, when the problems become real for the indifferent, they want everyone to come to their aid... how does that work?

I will stand with the UAL pilots. I will donate money to their strike fund. I will honor any picket lines they draw. I will call my legislators and support them. I don't know what more I can do. The UAL pilots will have to do the heavy lifting in the end though.

 

[AirCobra]

Then do it. When I was at a regional, I stood with the mainline guys and I stood with my guys....





No, but its like voting.... if you don't vote, then the apathy speaks volumes to those working against us...

My concern in your post... is you put the onus on the UAL guys to solve a problem that you fear will effect you.....

Only until all of us accept the problems of others will we be unifed....

We choose to be indifferent to fellow pilots problems, however suddenly, when the problems become real for the indifferent, they want everyone to come to their aid... how does that work?

You seemed pretty indifferent when you started flying mainline routes for half pay. Rez, I encourage you to save your speeches and telling mainline guys you stood by them when on another thread you blame mainline guys for "giving it away". You stood by mainline pilots after you helped put them in this situation, and only after you thought you had something to gain.

How long do you plan on lecturing, talking out of both sides of you mouth, continuing to blame others, and refusing to accept any responsibility for your actions? Who you gonna blame today?

 

[PHXFLYR]

I am an ALPA basher make no mistake about it. However maybe I have not made myself clear. My beef is with ALPA national not our volunteer union reps. I do believe we could be doing just as well in house without ALPA. In the end if you are indeed an United Pilot then surell you can see the difference between this and other code share agreements that are in place.

Wanna bet.....????


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

[...........................

 

[PHXFLYR]

sorry guys....duplication.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Not sure what it is with you APA guys..... the reason pilots left ALPA in the 1950s was silly and ego based...

As long as APA stays indy our effectiveness is weakened. Let ALPA join the APA. I don't care what it is called. We need to be under one group....


I don't think you guys are the enemy... but I think we are doing ourselves wrong by not joinoing forces....

Funny...I don't see you expressing the same sentiment regarding USAir pilots.


PHXFLYR

 

[eaglesview]

Wanna bet.....????


PHXFLYR

Anytime

 

[eaglesview]

Not sure what it is with you APA guys..... the reason pilots left ALPA in the 1950s was silly and ego based...

As long as APA stays indy our effectiveness is weakened. Let ALPA join the APA. I don't care what it is called. We need to be under one group....


I don't think you guys are the enemy... but I think we are doing ourselves wrong by not joinoing forces....

AA guys stay away. Do not come back as ALPA offers nothing to come back for. I can not wait to have the opportunity to vote them out. You would spend the rest of your career with a union in conflict with Eagle.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is another reason ALPA is much better than in house, like APA, SWAPA or USAPA...





Transportation Unions Challenge Policymakers to Break Cycle of Underinvestment

MIAMI, FL – Transportation union leaders met in their annual winter meeting and discussed their priority issues with Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and Rep. James Oberstar (D-Minn.), Chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Leaders of the 32 unions that comprise the Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO, discussed transportation investment, safety and security issues, and forged an agenda for 2009.

“The Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO is one of our most important partners in rebuilding America’s transportation infrastructure,” Secretary LaHood said.
“We are on the threshold of a transformational era in transportation. We must craft a bold new programmatic and financing structure that will strengthen our economy and sustain our quality of life,” Chairman Oberstar said. “Transportation workers will again be where they have always been: on the front lines of this transformation.”

“America’s anemic economy is in need of serious job creation at a time when our transportation infrastructure is failing,” said Edward Wytkind, president of TTD. “With several key transportation bills to be updated in 2009, the stars are aligning to help break the cycle of underinvestment in America’s transportation system.”

Three important reauthorization bills – for the Federal Aviation Administration, Surface Transportation and Hazardous Materials – were discussed in detail, as well as “Buy America” policies. Policy statements were agreed to for each and are available at www.ttd.org. Highlights of the statements include:

Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Bill
Today’s airports are operating at capacity, radar-based air traffic control systems are outdated and the safety of our aviation system is potentially compromised. Low morale and high turnover have plagued the FAA ever since the Bush Administration abandoned the collective bargaining process with its workers. TTD applauds Chairman Oberstar and Aviation Subcommittee Chairman Jerry Costello for the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2009 (H.R. 915). The bill provides desperately needed investments in our aviation system and makes significant strides on modernization, safety and employee issues.

Priority issues that must be included in the final FAA legislation include:
• Fixing the broken collective bargaining system at the FAA;
• Implementing numerous safety provisions, such as OSHA protections for flight attendants, increased inspection and standards for foreign repair stations that service U.S. aircraft, reversing the staffing crisis at the FAA, and reforming flight and duty time to address dangerous fatigue;
• Clarifying that FedEx mechanics and truck drivers are not aviation workers despite the company’s lobbying battle to preserve the misclassification in order to remain union-free;
• Codifying rules on foreign control and ownership of U.S. airlines; and
• Funding modernization and airport improvement initiatives. <more>

“This legislation should close the book on eight years of Bush Administration mismanagement, under-investment and neglect of the aviation system,” Wytkind said.

 

[regionaltard]

Cue the inflatable rat. Stand by and watch it happen. Standard briefing.

 

[Turtle21]

Here is another reason ALPA is much better than in house, like APA, SWAPA or USAPA...

[/COLOR]

AHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHA!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

AHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHA!!

Recall when Sullenburger testifed before Congress he said, Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l. Not once, did he say USAPA or any variant of it.....