International layovers

[General Lee]

We have'nt flown to Port of Spain in 2 years. The hotels in Europe have gotten worse, with lots of NH's and Novotels replacing Marriots and Sheratons-think BRU and MXP. There is that lovely Ramada in MXP. Ooh, don't leave out the lovely Novotel Eiffel Tower either. How about the Ambassatori in VCE? Don't let GL fool ya, the international layover hotels are steadily getting worse, in fact he hasn't flown international in a couple of years. He must have gone back to DCI to get those LBB layovers.

You obviously don't fly to Asia. Great hotels, great food, nice people. I don't do a lot of Paris, but I don't mind the hotel there, good location anyway. The DUS hotel is nice in Neuss, and I also like the one in Rio and Buenos Aires. You sound old and cranky. Please apply to Southwest and start over. Plenty of LBB waiting for you I am sure.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DC10]

Hey if you guys are going to do international stuff you need to be more open minded. Did BOM for years on DC 10 and had lots of fun and learned a lot too. Folks are generally poor but very nice.The history and site seeing go on for ever in India.

So true. I used to do BOM, DEL, and a couple of dozen African and South American cities as well as the more glamorous international cities on a regular basis flying the DC10. I loved them all. Honestly I'd take a Bombay, Nairobi or Bogota layover any day over somewhere as sterile as Paris, Frankfurt or London.

The world isn't anywhere near as dangerous and scary as the mainstream US media will have you believe.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The world isn't anywhere near as dangerous and scary as the mainstream US media will have you believe.

The interaction with other peoples from other cultures is something that I believe has enriched my life, the sights and sounds, music and most certainly foods from my experience working in Asia have been great. The mixed duties of cargo & passenger flying can at times be fatiguing with the night to day and back to night operations within the same duty roster, but every airline pilot that does similar duties is working hard these days, there is no cozy airline job anymore.

 

[fr8doggie]

First, each day pays the greater of what's flown, or 5.0tfp, or .74 tfp for each hour of duty during that day.
Then, each pairing must pay at least 6.5 tfp average per day (i.e. a 3-day trip must pay at least 19.5)
Finally, each pairing also must pay at least 1 tfp for every 3 hours away from base inclusive.
Deadheads pay the same as actual flying.

Obviously the point is to not have us sit around on a layover or at an airport for any length of time when we're at work. More than an hour or two total ground time during any day, and the .74 kicks in (or if you're delayed or weathered in somewhere, for that matter). Not scheduled to fly much during your pairing? At least 5.0 on any given day and an average of 6.5 per day over the pairing. Got a 4 day with long layovers (>16 hours or so)? You'll probably see the time-away-from-base rig kick in. These rigs are all not so much to get extra money from the company for nothing, but rather to incentivize the scheduling system to be more efficient. And they are efficient for the most part; just the way we like it. Spend less time away from home to bank the hours you need.

Bubba

Thanks for your response. I would humbly submit that long layovers are a function of an airline's business plan and not a bunch of greedy ALPA pilots looking to get paid for not working. Trip rigs were designed so a company couldn't dump a pilot somewhere for long periods without paying them. I've enjoyed 100hrs+ in SYD and I've spent a week going MEM-EWR every night. Guess which one was more fun? You will find longer and longer layovers at SWA the farther you range from DAL. They will be there for scheduling and safety reasons. My own company has enjoyed a modest success over the last 40 years and and we have many very long layovers (a function of our schedule). I personally don't think that the imbedded reserve is such a big deal. We occasionally have the "hotel stby" that we have to sit in the middle of a trip. They mostly occur in our hub cities (LAX, ANC, NRT, CDG, EWR, etc). Places we don't normally have domiciles. I think that you will find the need for a reserve crew in HNL to be minimal. Anyway, you guys will do what is best for your group as will others.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[waveflyer]

Cheers bubba

 

[SplitBar]

I haven't done Asia/Europe yet being on the 320, but I have done about a dozen layovers in Cancun, PVR, Cabo, Aruba and San Juan. They have always been 5 star resorts on the beach and have never gotten less than 20 hours. Usually 22-26 hour layovers.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Thanks for your response. I would humbly submit that long layovers are a function of an airline's business plan and not a bunch of greedy ALPA pilots looking to get paid for not working. Trip rigs were designed so a company couldn't dump a pilot somewhere for long periods without paying them. I've enjoyed 100hrs+ in SYD and I've spent a week going MEM-EWR every night. Guess which one was more fun? You will find longer and longer layovers at SWA the farther you range from DAL. They will be there for scheduling and safety reasons. My own company has enjoyed a modest success over the last 40 years and and we have many very long layovers (a function of our schedule). I personally don't think that the imbedded reserve is such a big deal. We occasionally have the "hotel stby" that we have to sit in the middle of a trip. They mostly occur in our hub cities (LAX, ANC, NRT, CDG, EWR, etc). Places we don't normally have domiciles. I think that you will find the need for a reserve crew in HNL to be minimal. Anyway, you guys will do what is best for your group as will others.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

Of course you're correct. I didn't mean to imply that longer layovers were a union-driven thing. It's driven by business model here at Southwest, just as at any other carrier. I merely responded to someone who was concerned that Southwest pilots were "screwing the industry" out of long layovers (or at least setting a bad example) by agreeing to be on call during the layover. That's not what is in our proposed Hawaii language, and we don't do layovers that long in the first place. We've never done them that long, because the company doesn't want to pay out what our rigs would require.

Our pilots overwhelmingly approve of this for the reason I stated--fewer workdays per month to bank the same hours. If we didn't have these rigs, or the company didn't care about paying for that long of a layover, then I'm sure some guys might even be happy about working an extra day or two per month for the same money, IF they spent that time on a beach in Hawaii. However, in THAT case, it would probably go more senior, and then junior guys like me would still have to work the extra day(s) but not get to lay on a beach for compensation. No thanks!

Bubba

 

[fr8doggie]

Of course you're correct. I didn't mean to imply that longer layovers were a union-driven thing. It's driven by business model here at Southwest, just as at any other carrier. I merely responded to someone who was concerned that Southwest pilots were "screwing the industry" out of long layovers (or at least setting a bad example) by agreeing to be on call during the layover. That's not what is in our proposed Hawaii language, and we don't do layovers that long in the first place. We've never done them that long, because the company doesn't want to pay out what our rigs would require.

Our pilots overwhelmingly approve of this for the reason I stated--fewer workdays per month to bank the same hours. If we didn't have these rigs, or the company didn't care about paying for that long of a layover, then I'm sure some guys might even be happy about working an extra day or two per month for the same money, IF they spent that time on a beach in Hawaii. However, in THAT case, it would probably go more senior, and then junior guys like me would still have to work the extra day(s) but not get to lay on a beach for compensation. No thanks!

Bubba

Thanks,

What does an average line at SWA pay in trips and how many days is it? Average line at FDX is 13 days and pays 78 hours.

If you guys ever head for Europe you will start to see 24hr+ layovers.

Regards,
Fr8doggie