International layovers

[igneousy2]

This is a good thread for this question too-

How do other airlines handle manning in far away destinations- swa is implementing an imbedded reserve day in a long layover- and when discussing it- very few of my peers knew how other airlines handle hawaii and other isolated destinations-
How do you deal with sick calls when a base is so far away?

As far as I know, line holders cannot be made to sit reserve at all US major airlines (traditional-major...not technical-major). Nor, are reserves allowed to be made to sit reserve out of base. At Alaska, I suppose they could technically re-assign a line-holder to the flight, but they have to get a hold of you before you get a beer and in time for you to get proper rest... not very likely especially since if a pilot fatigued right before departure (a high probability with these reassignments) it would just make a bad situation worse. The pilot wouldn't lose any money in pay, get a hotel room for 9 hours and then would get a first class ticket home on the next flight. I think there are pilots that live in Hawaii that would do it for JM pay (150%) to commute to work, which is why I think we still don't have a Hawaii base. Everytime i've heard of a sick call in Hawaii, they have simply delayed the flight until a reserve was flown in from the mainland. That being said, although most pilots at Alaska wouldn't hesitate to call in sick when sick, nobody here wants to see the company fail, so I think last minute sick calls are pretty rare, most of us give ample notice of being sick in Hawaii-in the van to the hotel for 24 hours notice I think is normal.

Good luck...I better not see you on hear taking shots at DAL guys if you guys 'cave' on this one.

 

[waveflyer]

General-
I'm glad you like your job.
Me too. No regrets on any choices I've made.
I strongly disagree with the choices DALPA has made.
I won't say I didn't enjoy international flying when I did it (not at a legacy- and I can only imagine its even better at delta) but I wouldn't be a part of outsourcing any longer.
But keep thinking everyone is jealous. I'm not remotely jealous. As I imagine you are not remotely jealous of me- even though I'm pretty darn happy too brother

 

[waveflyer]

Oh please
You guys are equating the details of a reserve rule we're still debating, that I haven't given enough information for you to understand WITH the wholesale outsourcing of hundreds of modern jets ....? Gmafb-

 

[GogglesPisano]

Jesus, you guys can't help but bash Swa every chance-
.

You're kidding, right?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=149609

 

[linecheck]

Sarcastic bravado aside, thanks for the posts everyone... I suppose there are 'flip-flops', and there are 'flip-flops'. A report at 9am, followed by an 8 hr flight, get's one at the destination by 6pm. 24hrs later, the pilot departs at, say, 8pm and lands at 4am. Certainly tiring on the second leg, but with some coffee and perhaps an inflight rest, not an impossible task to achieve.

By contrast, a pilot who reports at 11pm, arrives at 7am, and then the next day, 24 hrs later, departs at 9am and flies until 5pm, is experiencing a greater circadian reversal than the pilot who is operating the first trip.

So the end result, perhaps, is the pilot flying the second trip is more fatigued than the pilot flying the first, despite there being the same amount of rest in between.

I love it when managers say, 'but you had 24hrs rest... Why aren't you rested?'... yea right.

Then add a commute on top of all this, and the stage is set for long term health problems due to chronic fatigue- not to mention flight safety issues due to subpar pilot performance.

 

[Dan Roman]

As far as I know, line holders cannot be made to sit reserve at all US major airlines (traditional-major...not technical-major). Nor, are reserves allowed to be made to sit reserve out of base. At Alaska, I suppose they could technically re-assign a line-holder to the flight, but they have to get a hold of you before you get a beer and in time for you to get proper rest... not very likely especially since if a pilot fatigued right before departure (a high probability with these reassignments) it would just make a bad situation worse. The pilot wouldn't lose any money in pay, get a hotel room for 9 hours and then would get a first class ticket home on the next flight. I think there are pilots that live in Hawaii that would do it for JM pay (150%) to commute to work, which is why I think we still don't have a Hawaii base. Everytime i've heard of a sick call in Hawaii, they have simply delayed the flight until a reserve was flown in from the mainland. That being said, although most pilots at Alaska wouldn't hesitate to call in sick when sick, nobody here wants to see the company fail, so I think last minute sick calls are pretty rare, most of us give ample notice of being sick in Hawaii-in the van to the hotel for 24 hours notice I think is normal.

Good luck...I better not see you on hear taking shots at DAL guys if you guys 'cave' on this one.

Similar situation at Hawaiian except our crews layover in multiple destinations along the west coast. Pretty rare for someone to get sick and can't fly home, but the options would be to draw from the small 767 base with a couple reserves in SEA or fly someone in. Airbus trips obviously would have to wait for someone to be flown in. Again, very rare, pilots on layover are more reliable than airplanes, they want to go home and the chances of getting sick are pretty slim. We have quite a few crews who snowboard or ski on the PDX layover, even that's never caused a problem, knock wood!
Not sure why SWA would think they need to actually have crews sit "reserve" to cover flights in Hawaii. Airlines have numerous flights to Europe, they don't tell their crews to be ready to cover for anyone who might get sick, several airlines have a lot of crews in Asia, nobody sits around available on a layover if someone gets sick out there. It just doesn't happen that often and if it does it gets dealt with in whatever creative way scheduling and willing crews can do. But again it is a lot rarer than a mechanical breakdown.
If SWAPA went for that be prepared for getting a lot of flack for it, deservedly so I might add.

 

[Dan Roman]

Geez, I'm slipping, that would certainly be an over the top use of that "warrior Spirit"!.......... Sitting around on a layover in Hawaii waiting to cover if someone gets sick.

 

[Jim]

Geez, I'm slipping, that would certainly be an over the top use of that "warrior Spirit"!.......... Sitting around on a layover in Hawaii waiting to cover if someone gets sick.

It's okay, Kool-aid has no alcohol so they can still drink it while on reserve.....

 

[FO 4 Life]

While not necessarily a fair comparison due to the flying, there are several lengths at brown.

24-96 hr in WAW, CGN, HKG
24-102 hr HNL
24-72 hr PVG, NRT, TPE
24-48 hr ALA, DXB, SYD, SZX

Typically you'll get at least 24 hours, usually more. There are a few times it may be in the 15-17 hour range if you have DHs around Asia/Europe.

On the long layovers, no one is on reserve. If someone calls in sick or something happens, scheduling will try and get you, but you are under no obligation to answer.

 

[propjob27]

Off topic:

Can a SWA on here actually confirm the rumor about being on reserve (or otherwise forced to be contactable prior to show time in the lobby)

Is there any truth to this rumor? If so, details please.