Intereting Article about Spirit

[Jetpipeovht]

I can't get it to convert to text (well readable text anyway) so here are some highlights...

Longevity...to move one pay step you must fly 840 BLOCK hours. It is downwardly retroactive, meaning all hours flown at Spirit will be divided by 840 and that will be your pay step.

Pay
CA CA DOS+5yrs
1 64.65 72.75
2 96.64 108.75
3 104.46 117.55
4 108.14 121.69
5 115.51 129.98
6 117.65 132.39
7 119.74 134.74
8 121.53 136.76
9 123.35 138.81
10 125.21 140.90
Pay steps are 2% 4% 4% 2% for DOS +3, 4, 5

F/O pay is 55% of CA pay

No more 150% pay for open time pickups

New hire training 1,000 plus 750 per diem until first month after IOE

Deadhead pay 50% of block

Per diem 1.90 with a .05 increase on the 2nd and 5th anniversary of the DOS

10 days off, except for 31 day months then it is 11

95 - 65 hour lines

Rest FAR minimums

Reserves must call CS to receive assignments if they have not received one by 1500 the day before

Reserve days off may be changed by the company on an operational need basis

Training assignments will be assigned to the open periods on a pilots schedule

Minimum guarantee
will be 15 hours less than the highest scheduled line value...so 80-50 hour guarantee

No minimum day for reserves

Block or better per duty period

Vacation
2 weeks accrual for 1-5 year employees
3 weeks for 6+ years

Vacation may be canceled by the company with 2 weeks notice

Probationary pilots may not file grievances nor may they have one filed on their behalf

WOW!! Where do I sign???

 

[:-)]

WOW!! Where do I sign???

you sign the strike vote YES

 

[gatorbird]

With oil at 50$, you call that bad timing ? A new contract will not kill Spirit if the economy tanks badly.
Besides, a strike vote does not mean you will be striking 3 days later. It is a long process.
The contract the company offers is unrealistic. But my opinion is that they know they could not get these conditions. All they are trying to do is lower your standard regarding the current one. You are seeing the present contract as not bad after all, and that is exactly what they are trying to accomplish. Look back and ask yourself, what you were hoping for when we started to negociate, and what you are willing to accept now. This kind of attitude makes them win again, and you have contributed to lowering the standard in the whole industry.
So vote NO, and you are one step closer to the contract they offer.
The only weapon we have is being UNITED.

Current contract not bad after all? With the exception of the payrates and a terrible trip averaging formula, it's not. Both those two exceptions should be enough to convince this group that we need improvements.

During my first year here, I had an opportunity to sit down with two of the then-negotiating committee members. We had a candid discussion about what I was looking for as a "newbie" Spirit guy and what they were aiming to accomplish in negotiations. I told them that I was open-minded and would be willing to hear them out on the pros and cons of a preferential bidding system, along with other "progressive" language in terms of historical CBAs. I can be a bit of an idealist, and I was willing to listen to "win-win" stategies that would better both the pilot group and the airline.

What changed? Frankly, a continuous hammering by airline management on every aspect of our current CBA in an effort to squeeze anything out of me and my colleagues. From pay calculations to hotel accommodations during training events to scheduling, we have taken beating after beating that has left us mentally exhausted.

But for me, part of their plan backfired. My open-mindedness and spirit of working together is lost. I no longer trust this airline to do anything that benefits us both-- only them. Pref bidding? Over my dead body. For 8 months they gave me a glimpse of what to expect if I allow them more control over my schedule. You want to redefine how my vacation is calculated? Nope, I like my current system, thank you. You want my 4-days off provision gone? You wouldn't be able to afford me at the payrate I'd demand.

So there was a time when I would have considered voting on a "industry progessive" TA, but that's passed. I'll stick with language that I know and understand (with more concise language, of course...I think we've learned our lesson on that). Would I sign on for a modified agreement consistent with our current one? Sure would, with 121-carrier industy standard or better CA rates. FO rates tied to these rates as a more-realistic percentage. And COLA provisions. Better do something about these 30-hour sits I'm doing in BOS/ORD/MCO/etc., 'cause I wanna get paid for that too.

Reading over C9000, I haven't lost my perspective. If anything, I moved my line in the sand up just a bit. This race to the bottom has to stop, and if I have to do it with my feet and a sign, so be it. The pilot group did not cause this rift. The old MEC didn't. Nor did the new MEC. It was management (aka Indigo), and I'll send them my response in the form of a vote.

gator

 

[Flyinhi]

Amen Gatorbird I feel the same way.

 

[:-)]

Current contract not bad after all? With the exception of the payrates and a terrible trip averaging formula, it's not. Both those two exceptions should be enough to convince this group that we need improvements.

During my first year here, I had an opportunity to sit down with two of the then-negotiating committee members. We had a candid discussion about what I was looking for as a "newbie" Spirit guy and what they were aiming to accomplish in negotiations. I told them that I was open-minded and would be willing to hear them out on the pros and cons of a preferential bidding system, along with other "progressive" language in terms of historical CBAs. I can be a bit of an idealist, and I was willing to listen to "win-win" stategies that would better both the pilot group and the airline.

What changed? Frankly, a continuous hammering by airline management on every aspect of our current CBA in an effort to squeeze anything out of me and my colleagues. From pay calculations to hotel accommodations during training events to scheduling, we have taken beating after beating that has left us mentally exhausted.

But for me, part of their plan backfired. My open-mindedness and spirit of working together is lost. I no longer trust this airline to do anything that benefits us both-- only them. Pref bidding? Over my dead body. For 8 months they gave me a glimpse of what to expect if I allow them more control over my schedule. You want to redefine how my vacation is calculated? Nope, I like my current system, thank you. You want my 4-days off provision gone? You wouldn't be able to afford me at the payrate I'd demand.

So there was a time when I would have considered voting on a "industry progessive" TA, but that's passed. I'll stick with language that I know and understand (with more concise language, of course...I think we've learned our lesson on that). Would I sign on for a modified agreement consistent with our current one? Sure would, with 121-carrier industy standard or better CA rates. FO rates tied to these rates as a more-realistic percentage. And COLA provisions. Better do something about these 30-hour sits I'm doing in BOS/ORD/MCO/etc., 'cause I wanna get paid for that too.

Reading over C9000, I haven't lost my perspective. If anything, I moved my line in the sand up just a bit. This race to the bottom has to stop, and if I have to do it with my feet and a sign, so be it. The pilot group did not cause this rift. The old MEC didn't. Nor did the new MEC. It was management (aka Indigo), and I'll send them my response in the form of a vote.

gator

Well said,

When you running for Status Rep?

 

[onthestreet]

Reading over C9000, I haven't lost my perspective. If anything, I moved my line in the sand up just a bit. This race to the bottom has to stop, and if I have to do it with my feet and a sign, so be it. The pilot group did not cause this rift. The old MEC didn't. Nor did the new MEC. It was management (aka Indigo), and I'll send them my response in the form of a vote.

gator

Hurrah, Spirit is going out. We needed a few less seats in this biz.

 

[gatorbird]

Hurrah, Spirit is going out. We needed a few less seats in this biz.

Wow, wishing 500 good guys/gals will get shown the unemployment line. Aren't you just a ray 'o sunshine?

What's your deal? Looking at some of your previous posts, you have a history here. Bounce out for greener pastures, only to find a dead-end corporate job? Or were you canned and now have an axe to grind?

 

[gatorbird]

Well said,

When you running for Status Rep?

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm in full support of my current rep. He's got much more experience and is the man for the job right now. A little rough around the edges, maybe, but he's got our collective best interests in mind. As it is, it takes a tough guy to do a tough job.

That said, I haven't ruled out some type of involvement at some point. If I'm here, I might as well try and make it better, you know?

gator

 

[Mike man]

Hurrah, Spirit is going out. We needed a few less seats in this biz.

That's not very nice...who took a dump in your Wheaties?

 

[kwick]

Hurrah, Spirit is going out. We needed a few less seats in this biz.

Go back to your Piper Cub, You tool.

Some day when you grow up you might be able to fly airplanes for a living too.

 

[RedTailSwinger]

Wow, wishing 500 good guys/gals will get shown the unemployment line. Aren't you just a ray 'o sunshine?

Jobs will not be destroyed if Spirit goes out of business. Jobs will just be created at other airlines.

Wouldn't you rather an additional 500 jobs open up at an airline like Southwest, Delta, or jetBlue and 500 jobs disappear at Spirit? It will be the best for the industry. The only sacrafice will be the small group of pilots at Spirit. We need fewer airlines in this industry. I hope ALPA convinces Spirit pilots to go on strike.

 

[kwick]

Jobs will not be destroyed if Spirit goes out of business. Jobs will just be created at other airlines.

Wouldn't you rather an additional 500 jobs open up at an airline like Southwest, Delta, or jetBlue and 500 jobs disappear at Spirit? It will be the best for the industry. The only sacrafice will be the small group of pilots at Spirit. We need fewer airlines in this industry. I hope ALPA convinces Spirit pilots to go on strike.

Another Tool. Sounds like your a bottom, career F/O that would like more furlough protection behind you.

I bet you were real happy to see the NW mechanics go on strike so that it would open up a lot of better job opportunities at Delta.

 

[gatorbird]

Go back to your Piper Cub, You tool.

Some day when you grow up you might be able to fly airplanes for a living too.

Nah, look at this guy's previous posts; he's been around for awhile and probably worked at NK at one time. He doesn't like someone here or vice versa.

 

[gatorbird]

Jobs will not be destroyed if Spirit goes out of business. Jobs will just be created at other airlines.

Wouldn't you rather an additional 500 jobs open up at an airline like Southwest, Delta, or jetBlue and 500 jobs disappear at Spirit? It will be the best for the industry. The only sacrafice will be the small group of pilots at Spirit. We need fewer airlines in this industry. I hope ALPA convinces Spirit pilots to go on strike.

I have to admit that you do have a point. One of the greatest fears here (especially senior CAs) is that ALPA will do just that: let us shut down as an example to other scumbag execs, allow us to collect strike benefits and offer us preferential interviews at other ALPA carriers.

Here's where you have it wrong, though: many of us wouldn't like to work somewhere else. We're not all misfit toys that can't get hired elsewhere. For me, I like the fact that I'm in my early 30s, get 3 or 4 weekends off a month, am able to hold an average of 16-17 days off a month, have never sat reserve, happy with my base, am building longevity for vacation time, fly nice equipment to interesting places, and enjoy the people I work with. If (big IF) we ever get the equipment that's planned, I'll enjoy all of the above in the left seat of an Airbus. Do you know how long it will take to get to that point somewhere else?

There are others here who have even more compelling reasons to stay. This isn't a bad place to work; it's a bad management to work under. Guess what? These guys will move on one day. Hey, they might get their hand in at your carrier...what should we do, shut your's down too?

I agree that we don't need to let anything resembling C9000 see the light of day at any carrier in the US. I believe that's the concensus around here (we'll find out the exact percentage very soon). As I said before, I would just assume walk away before I work under C9000; it wouldn't be the job described above, and I would be better off starting over somewhere else (or doing something else).

That said, do I hope we have do shut it down to prove a point? Hell no. I'd like to keep my job and get compensated fairly for being here.

gator

 

[Beetle007]

I don't see pref interviews happening because that is what ALPA promised the Eastern pilots and they all got back-stabbed.

"A.L.P.A.'s locals agreed that if Eastern is eventually sold in pieces, the locals would insure that Eastern pilots got new jobs with their seniority intact. Union members, A.L.P.A. said, will not fly planes or routes previously owned by Eastern unless this condition is met."
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/19/b...ade-at-eastern.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

What actually happened was that ALPA pilots from other airlines publicly supported the Eastern pilots and said they would get them jobs. In secret, they told their management NOT to hire the Eastern pilots. I talked to one pilot who actually saw a letter that was "secretly" written to management of a legacy airline telling them NOT to hire Eastern pilots even though they would publicly say otherwise. How many of you know that the Eastern MEC actually went on "strike" against ALPA national and formed a picket line outside the headquarters?

 

[RedTailSwinger]

Pref interviews for Spirit pilots would be nice but I don't think it is realistic. Most airlines are downsizing and furloughing. More importantly, the managment at airlines that do hire in the next few years have no desire to hire a bunch of pilots that went on strike.

True sacrafice is doing something that harms yourself knowing that it will benefit others. What is more important, this industry or your job?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Redtailswinger,

STFU!

 

[gatorbird]

Pref interviews for Spirit pilots would be nice but I don't think it is realistic. Most airlines are downsizing and furloughing. More importantly, the managment at airlines that do hire in the next few years have no desire to hire a bunch of pilots that went on strike.

True sacrafice is doing something that harms yourself knowing that it will benefit others. What is more important, this industry or your job?

First, let's get something straight: if I choose to no longer work here, it's for me-- not for you. If I choose to strike, it's for me--not for you. You can give me lip service all you want about "better for the industry", but you'd do the same thing. Now, I don't want anything resembling C9000 to come to fruition at any US carrier, but my reasons for not wanting to work under it concern me, my family, and my other personal and financial concerns. What you want is not very high on my list of importance right now.

About the pref. interview scenario: I don't believe it would work out, although I think it would be sold to us by ALPA. I think it's very much like flow-through agreements-- you're better off setting off on your own job search.

gator

 

[OurMoney1]

and spirit has a union and actually a pretty descent contract.

That management walks all over.

 

[huncowboy]

That management walks all over.

And your point is?

Nobody is immune of a hostile management. Just be happy that it is not happening to you because it can. Things went to arbitration and what could be won was won the rest became homework for the next contract. So yeah NK does have a good QOL contract. Go back to sleep you have a plane to fly at 1AM.