Interesting RJ article............

[FurloughedAgain]

70 - 120 seat negotiations

CAUTION: ALPA NEGOTIATORS AT WORK (hide the kids and stuff your savings in the mattress!)

General,

I certainly hope that you are able to secure orders for an aircraft that will be able to bridge the gap between the 70 passenger CRJ-700 and the MD88 and 737 fleets.

I also hope that your negotiators will be a little more forward-thinking than my former-coworkers at US Airways were and will secure pay and benefits that are appropriate for that size aircraft. The MidAtlantic pay/benefit/airline-within-an-airline fiasco is damaging to the entire industry and even the entire profession. If the Delta pilots negotiate "Eagle wages and workrules" for their 70-120 seat product the bar will have been permanently lowered, further eroding the profession.

Many of those who have been "recalled" to US Airways Embraer Division have bypassed the recall rather than accepting the recall and flying the aircraft for such substandard payrates. There should NEVER be a time when a mainline furloughee makes the CHOICE to decline a recall. (unless he/she has been hired in the interim by FedEx, Southwest, etc...) The US Airways ALPA negotiators should be emberassed.

So best of luck in your upcoming negotiations and with the pending recall of the Delta furloughees.

Respectfully,
FurloughedAgain
CL65 Copilot

PS - Did you get the 'Dukes' DVD set yet? http://www.warnervideo.com/dukesofhazzard/

 

[belchfire]

The DC-9-93, er Boeing 717, baby! Keep the
line alive!!!

 

[MJG]

Mr. Boyd half-jokingly says flying in a regional jet for three hours is a "recipe for DVT" – deep vein thrombosis, in which blood clots form due to tight conditions. Few trips on regional jets are very long, but the average flight time has been increasing.

Hmmm... YYZ-IAH, ORF-IAH, RIC-IAH, PIT-IAH, CLE-DEN, CLE-HOU, CLE-MIA, IAH-PSP, IAH-ONT, IAH-BOI, EWR-OKC. etc, etc, etc.....

I swear I'm going to end up with DVT one of these days.

 

[General Lee]

Furloughedagain,


I wish I could tell you that Dalpa wouldn't do that, but I honestly have a feeling that if the crap was ready to hit the fan, that Dalpa would grant lower wages on the future 100 seaters, and try to keep the higher wages on the larger planes. They did that with Delta Express and the '96 contract. They set up a different pay scale for Express (I was a part of it)---even though Mainline also had domestic 737-200s. I remember waiting for our Express 737 at ISP (Long Island) and in came a Mainline 737 without the Express logo. The two guys got out and said they were called in to fly the trip due to a mechanical. In reality--they were getting paid a lot more to fly the same Express trip--and we flew the mainline 737 down to FLL for Express pay...

I forsee a large pay cut for Mainline (you can determine what large is)---and then a lower pay scale for future 100 seaters---which will allow for our furloughs to come back. I don't see Dalpa giving up on the future 100 seaters--and if that means lowering the wages a tad--I bet they will---they did it with the Express 737s.

You are right, this profession is eroding in front of our eyes. But, as long is there is a chance to eventually move up to a Major and getting that elusive "better pay etc."--it will be worth it. Let's just hope that things eventually get better and we are once again allowed to ask for "raises" instead of negotiating "pay cuts".

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I agree. I hope you're able to secure that flying for your furloughees. One of these days we're going to have some GOOD news in this industry and i'm going to have a heart attack just reading it!

 

[General Lee]

No sheit! I will be there at the hospital room next to you (seperate beds please).


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[embdrvr]

"I don't know why they don't spin off Eagle," Mr. Boyd said.

Once again Michael Boyd opens his mouth to prove that he's an idiot!

Currently Eagle is the only thing in the AMR portfolio that's generating a profit for the corporation. For the first quarter of 2004 Eagle had an operating income of $58 million on $420 million in revenue with better then a 10% operating margin. And this "genius" can't figure out why Eagle isn't up on the auction block!

Where do the profits come from?
Could AMR sell off Eagle and then start putting that flying out for bid? Then what?

 

[bvt1151]

Not to change the subject but, General said, "They're better than props..."

I still believe that in MANY short-haul markets from Atlanta, Cincinnati, LaGuardia etc. the Dash 8 Q-400 would be a far superior airplane. On trips of less than 500 miles there is virtually no difference in flight time between the Q-400 and the CRJ. The cabin on the Q-400 is significantly larger and, of course, the Q-400 holds 70 passengers. The Q stands for "quiet" and Bombardier touts their noise and vibration cancellation system which makes the airplane significantly quieter than the CRJ throughout the flight envelope. The airplane burns a fraction of the fuel of a pure-jet at low altitudes which would make it far more efficient (important with todays fuel prices) on short segments...

A man of my own heart. RJ's haven't reached their potential, however they are being overused in markets where turboprops were always best. How ironic is it that a prop may be the future? Bring on the Q-400!

 

[LJDRVR]

Unfortunately, the wonderful Q-400 will never catch on in the US, for the same reason reverybody complains about how uncomfortable the RJ's are: The American consumer is stupid. They don't want one of those "old-fashioned" propellors on their airplane. (Never mind that the Q-400 is quite more technologically advanced than most jets.) They also automatically assume that because the fuselage is smaller, RJ's have less room inside. A cursory review of the airlines own websites however, indicates that in matters of pitch and width, they're they same as everyone's narrow bodies, occasionally with an extra inch of pitch. "Recipe for DVT"?! Mr. Boyd is an imbeclle. If you're going to hold yourself out as an "expert", you'de better do your research.

Keep the articles coming!

 

[On Your Six]

I think the Dash 8-400 would work very well in certain markets. Seems like the ATR-72 has worked pretty well for ASA. The Dash has the right number of seats and it has that "big aircraft" feel to it that many RJs (e.g., Emb-135) lack. However, with all of the negotiations going on at Delta, I doubt that Grinstein would seriously consider it unless Bombardier were to offer a HUGE discount -which it might given its own financial problems to get the factories working again.

Great airplane - but perhaps the wrong timing...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Furloughedagain,


I wish I could tell you that Dalpa wouldn't do that, but I honestly have a feeling that if the crap was ready to hit the fan, that Dalpa would grant lower wages on the future 100 seaters,

I remember waiting for our Express 737 at ISP (Long Island) and in came a Mainline 737 without the Express logo. The two guys got out and said they were called in to fly the trip due to a mechanical. In reality--they were getting paid a lot more to fly the same Express trip--and we flew the mainline 737 down to FLL for Express pay...

I forsee a large pay cut for Mainline (you can determine what large is)---and then a lower pay scale for future 100 seaters---which will allow for our furloughs to come back.

You are right, this profession is eroding in front of our eyes. But, as long is there is a chance to eventually move up to a Major and getting that elusive "better pay etc."--it will be worth it. Let's just hope that things eventually get better and we are once again allowed to ask for "raises" instead of negotiating "pay cuts".

Bye Bye--General Lee

General :

You probably felt alot like I do when ASA puts on an "extra section" to cover a 737 cancellation. The departure and arrival times just happen to coincide exactly. It is called "alter ego" although your MEC saw no signs of "operational integration."

As you now know, your MEC will have to negotiate rates using US Air, American's and ASA's rates. A dollar is a dollar to management ( or a bankruptcy Judge ). By allowing alter ego flying, your MEC is in large part responsible for the erosion of our industry.

It is easy for you to be sympathetic to the plight of those below you on the list when you have yours. When, if ever, will ALPA and the Delta MEC realize that they are the reason why pay rates are in free fall and there may not be any up for any of us to move up to before long? I guess you will draw the line at the 777 when you hold the 777.

It is nothing personal. You are the only Delta MEC apologist on the board for us to pick on. Most have given up, or are selling cars now.

~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think the Dash 8-400 would work very well in certain markets. Seems like the ATR-72 has worked pretty well for ASA. The Dash has the right number of seats and it has that "big aircraft" feel to it that many RJs (e.g., Emb-135) lack. However, with all of the negotiations going on at Delta, I doubt that Grinstein would seriously consider it unless Bombardier were to offer a HUGE discount -which it might given its own financial problems to get the factories working again.

Great airplane - but perhaps the wrong timing...

Rumors are the ATR leases were extended for the time being. The Dash 8 is a good airplane, but the speed made little difference on ATR routes, while the increased fuel burns and training did is my guess.

I don't see how any of the turboprops beat the ATR unless it is necessary to climb over a mountain. But, the CRJ 700 offsets the cost by reducing training and the costs associated with having another type in the fleet.

 

[Skyboss]

BBD would do well to expand the fuselage of the 300Q to increase seat pitch to 33" as it is with the Q400 and put a new engine on it to bump the speed up to match the Q400. No way airlines could pass this up. The Q400 has the same trip cost as a CRJ-200 and the Q300 would match the ERJ-135KE (140). Enough of this long haul Regional BS. Time for the regionals to return to reality.

The reality is the Small RJ boom is over. Time to come back to earth and face the economics. Even the Embraer 170 is burning 600 PPH more than the CRJ-700, and only 900 PPH less than the 717, can't imagine what the 190/195 will burn. Nice big jet, but is carries a nice big fuel bill.

BTW... Break Even pax count on the Q400 is 25-32 seats depending on the fare structure. Meaning, it wound kill the 50 seater under 350 miles even in an over capacity situation. Heck, cut it down to 64 seats and offer an unheard of 36" pitch and still kick their tails. I love RJ's, but it's really over kill right now, and for a 6'4" guys they're a pain.

 

[SennaP1]

Longest RJ flight you've done...

Myself,

BOS-STL last week

3:41

150 kt HW

 

[Steveair]

Come on guys - it's the media! They can never make more than two or three sentences be accurate when writing about aviation. It makes you wonder how accurate some of their other stories are too...