Interesting day

[cforst513]

.....http://www.wftv.com/news/4982688/detail.html

 

[Tarzan]

No way you could gotten me into that Jeep to do that. I would have gear upped it and been done with it. Funny how Epic wouldn't let their pilot talk about it.

 

[User546]

Why were they towing it in after it landed, rather then letting it taxi under it's own power?

This wasn't you in this plane was it cforst?

 

[cforst513]

no user, wasn't me. did they tow it in case the gear collapsed? make sure no one was in it or risked getting hurt? what if the prop was spinning and the gear collapsed? there's a high-cost repair.

on a funny note, one of the CFI's was asked by a news anchor:
that thing on the front -- is it called a "prop" or a "propeller"?

this has gotta be a new low...

 

[9GClub]

Real men belly it in.

 

[rvsm410]

This was done one before somewhere here in Florida about 10 years ago I suspect. The guy was in a convertable and reached up and pulled the gear down with his hand...it was an Arrow...

 

[cforst513]

be careful what you say about people you don't know, T-Gates. you weren't there, you have no idea what was going through everyone's head. and thankfully they didn't have you to depend on when trying to get this situation fixed.

 

[semperfido]

.....i would say kudos for thinking outside the box

 

[bigD]

I dunno cforst. It's like the guys that pull the mixture(s) on short final to save the engine(s) when faced with a gear up landing. Sure it's an expensive repair, but I'd rather just let the insurance company deal with it instead of increase my risk.

 

[Kream926]

legend has it tha some where at an aviation school in tulsa (ahem) the same thing happened to an RG and the instructor layed down on his stomach and used the seat belt to lasso the gear down to lock

 

[GravityHater]

I wouldn't want to be 5 ft from a huge spinning salad-shooter blade when that blade could descend/decelerate into my path, and I would have to rely on the untrained stunt-driver of an 80mph vehicle to keep me out of its path.
He can land gear up, it will give the local mechanic some work.

 

[350DRIVER]

.....i would say kudos for thinking outside the box

I would say the same. Easy to second guess those involved and place blame upon them, state risk factors were increased, etc, but without being there it shouldn't hold much weight. Some of these responses are comparable to listening to Cnn's Miles O'brien chime in on aircraft accidents/incidents.

 

[Metro752]

The airport will now investigate to see if the impromptu in-flight inspection broke any major rules."Investigating the incident and determining if any action needs to be taken," said Lewis.When the airport is done with their investigation, they will forward their report to the Federal Aviation Authority.

There ain't no rules in an emergency. The more I hear about Epic, the more I like it, too bad it's in Florida, and ain't no way I'm gonna smelt down there for months on end

 

[gkrangers]

*scratches Epic off list for complex training*

 

[FN FAL]

http://poetry.rotten.com/chopper/Picture3.jpg

David Clarks?

 

[Metro752]

Thats a gross picture two of a guy who got hit by a rotar

 

[JimNtexas]

Some Cardinal owners carry a retractable boat hook for this situation. Thats a long shot, but the risk is acceptable in my mind.

But I think using the jeep and risking all those people is just plain careless and reckless operation, pure and simple.

There isn't any excuse for that kind of thing.

 

[shamrock]

"be careful what you say about people you don't know, T-Gates. you weren't there, you have no idea what was going through everyone's head. and thankfully they didn't have you to depend on when trying to get this situation fixed."

"Easy to second guess those involved and place blame upon them, state risk factors were increased, etc, but without being there it shouldn't hold much weight. Some of these responses are comparable to listening to Cnn's Miles O'brien chime in on aircraft accidents/incidents."

If memory serves there was a very long thread on this type of incident a while back but I can't seem to find it.

I'll throw my vote in for this being a pretty dumb idea. What would everyone here be saying if the pilot had misjudged his altitude and pancaked in on top of the Jeep? What would we say if the pilot or Jeep driver misjudged their speed and turned the people in the Jeep into a tossed salad? Idiots.

I don't think anyone would need to "be there" to come to the conclusion that landing an airplane with a bum gear leg on the runway under control is a lot less risky than what these guys did. I'm sure an insurance company would much rather pay out for the damage of a (partial) gear up landing than deal with lawsuits from either the families of the "victims" (I'd use that term loosely in this situation) or the survivors. Yeah, they managed to pull it off this time, but this was still a stupid, stupid thing to do.

"Shamrock" O'Brien

 

[cforst513]

did you guys not see in the video that one of the wheels was down but the other wasn't completely in place? how about landing on one wheel that's locked and spiraling once the opposite wing hit the ground? that could have resulted in death too, just not in the same "tossed salad" way. i don't claim to know what happened b/c i wasn't there, but nothing happened and 2 souls returned safely to earth. i'd say that was pretty good.

 

[shamrock]

It would have resulted in maybe 2 deaths, instead of 2 plus however many were in the Jeep. I'd hazard to say that if the plane was kept under control for as long as possible through the flare and touchdown death would be extremely unlikely.

2 wheel landings have been done before.

737 gear up landing.

 

[minitour]

did you guys not see in the video that one of the wheels was down but the other wasn't completely in place? how about landing on one wheel that's locked and spiraling once the opposite wing hit the ground?

The pilot should have learned how to do that. It should be in the Emergency checklist for the RG.

I'll chime in and say "no way" would I have done that.

But I'm a "kitty kat" so...there ya go.

-mini

 

[cforst513]

.....

 

[jafo20]

So I was always taught to retract the gear and belly land, if one of the mains didn't extend (a blown main tire doesn't require a belly landing). You're controllable, and you don't ahve to worry about breaking open your wing fuel tanks, cartwheeling, etc. Still, whether or not you approve of the actions of these guys, they recovered the aircraft without incident. When the sh-t really hits the fan, you become awfully creative before you commit to bending metal.

I guess I'm trying to say that it's easy for all of us to play monday morning quarterback. Perhaps the Cessna pilot had lots time flying tight formation, like a skydiver pilot or something? Perhaps the driver of the Jeep knew what he was doing?

If airshow pilots get away with flying their Cubs while hanging off one of the struts, we should probably cut an innovative CFI some slack.

 

[cforst513]

so here's a question on the logistics of the 737 that landed w/ one of the main gear up. how do you counteract the friction caused by that engine dragging on the ground? is the mass and momentum of that huge plane enough to keep it going in a straight line, or would it be more of trial-and-error (in the few seconds you're actually dragging the plane)? i wonder if rudder is the only thing that would be helpful in trying to keep the jet from going off the side of the runway.

 

[shamrock]

Nosewheel steering might help. Assymetrical (sp?) braking.

 

[NuGuy]

This was done one before somewhere here in Florida about 10 years ago I suspect. The guy was in a convertable and reached up and pulled the gear down with his hand...it was an Arrow...

Hi RSVM,

Yea, I remember the Arrow deal. They had a couple of guys in the back of the pickup truck. It took them 3 tries, but one of them finally grabbed the stuck main and yanked it down. They actually had some video of them doing it.

I remember a few years after that some news show (America's stupidest videos, or something like that), ran a bit on it. They tracked down all the people involved a did some interviews. The funny thing is that the CFI in the Arrow was the hardest to pin down, and it turns out he was a FO at CAL. They only way they got an interview with him was to do an "ambush" interview.

When they did, he looked totally mortified that this had resurrected itself, and he wanted to crawl under the nearest rock.

Nu

 

[Huggyu2]

We complain out insurance rates, yet many are happy to just "belly it in and let the insurance folks deal with it". If I new the players involved, and had confidence, then I'd give it a shot too. This is the third time I've seen something like this done.
And, since some of you will ask, yes, I've driven underneath an aircraft flying 10' off the runway to inspect their wheels/gear --- on more than one occasion.

The insurance company should offer their thanks in the form of a reward to these folks.

 

[shamrock]

The insurance company should offer their thanks in the form of a reward to these folks.

Reward stupidity, it's the American way!

I'd like to have some insurance people presented with the situation just to hear what they would want done. Maybe $100,000 for a totalled airplane vs. millions for the deaths that could result from a misjudgement. Other lawsuits would surely follow. Cessna for a making the airplane, Jeep for making a vehicle that can't outrun a Cessna. And don't forget the faulty rollbar that couldn't withstand a 2500 pound airplane landing on it!

"And, since some of you will ask, yes, I've driven underneath an aircraft flying 10' off the runway to inspect their wheels/gear --- on more than one occasion."

Did you also try to pull the gear down or were you just inspecting it? I would think there might be a bit more margin for error in that situation.

 

[U of I Tweak]

Some Cardinal owners carry a retractable boat hook for this situation. Thats a long shot, but the risk is acceptable in my mind.

I won't tackle the debate as to whether this was a good or bad idea (partially because I wasn't there and don't have all the facts) but the Cardinal comment reminded me of a story I read some time back (in AOPA I believe). There was a 210 pilot whose gear failed to extend. Apparently all the hydraulic fluid had departed the aircraft sometime after the gear was retracted. So, realizing the problem (I believe that the nose gear came down via gravity or the tiny bit of fluid left in the system released the uplock or something like that, but the mains were still locked up) he set the auto pilot, crawled back to the main wheel wells (between the rear seat and baggage compartment), broke through the floor with a screw driver and manually released the uplocks. Then he grabbed his towbar and pulled the mains up into position. He subsequently landed safely. Sounds kind of like a MacGyver type move to me.

 

[MFRskyknight]

I'll chime in and say "no way" would I have done that.

But I'm a "kitty kat" so...there ya go.

-mini

mini....has Hollywood taught you nothing?

MFR